GM's excess baggage - Buick, Pontiac, Saab, Hummer

Page 3 of 5  


No, I dont know that, but have heard it quoted a number of times. Cows (and people, for that matter) dont increase carbon based gases in the ecosphere over the equlibrium which has been established over the eons. The vegetation they would eat to produce this flatulence is just part of the recirculating carbon balance.
The serious increases are from carbon sources which have removed or made unavailable over the millenia in the form of coal deposits, oil deposits, etc.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@nospam.nix wrote:

Well, you say that but cows (and people) have never before existed in such numbers on the planet.
Graham
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Doesnt make any difference. As long as the carbon comes from surface (vegetation) sources, it can be recirculated without massively upsetting the apple cart. You see, the "apple cart" is the climatic system that we are adapted to, after thousands of years of development.
Over the past millions of years, the climate has been far different, and not always very pleasant. Many species went extinct, but some survived.
As long as the carbon is locked away in the ground, as coal or oil, then everything else on the surface just recycles, more or less. But as you mine the reserve fossil deposits and convert them to CO2 or CH4, you begin to move the "apple cart" out of the realm of human adaptability and back to conditions as they were when other species were king.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Yeahbut the cows of old used to fart more than the cows of today.
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mike Marlow wrote:

Actually it's the burping that releases most of the methane !
Graham
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Eeyore proclaimed:

Although cows contribute signifantly more, humans emit a more dangerous greenhouse gas, methane, as a byproduct of digestion.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Cows don't actually contribute any CO2, and humans don't either. Cows, like humans, can only generate CO2 by eating carbon-containing material. Cows eat grass. The grass was CO2 in the atmosphere only a week before they eat it. It's not important. If the grass dies and turns back into CO2 without the cow, it's just the same. It doesn't matter what the cows eat, because they don't ever eat petroleum or coal. They always eat something that was CO2 a little while before, and will be CO2 a little while later if they don't eat it. People are the same way.
The methane is important, because it wasn't methane before they ate it. Grass + cows can convert CO2 to CO2, which is dull. It's too dull to talk about. The important thing is that grass + cows can convert CO2 to methane, and that is worth talking about. Methane is better insulation than CO2, and contributes more to global warming.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Actually, that's just what they're talking about in Washington. It's for real.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Is that you Al Gore? The sky is falling the sky is falling run. LOL
mike
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote in message

Maybe we missed your point. We thought you meant US brands of cars have poorer fuel economy than foreign brands.
Pawlowski's comment is "ratings for domestic and foreign cars of the same size and there is little, if any, difference". The only accurate conclusion is that some people in the US buy less economical cars - either foreign or domestic. OK. So what? I can't change what America buys and your complaining won't change it either, particularly when you are complaining to a group that drives Saabs. Have you heard the expression "Preaching to the choir"? I can only do my small part. My new car gets 35 mpg (6.7 l/100km), seats 5 comfortably, uses low-cost, regular octane gasoline, and is classified as an Ultra Low Emissions (II) Vehicle. BTW, it is a US brand: Ford.
Did you actually mean that cars sold in the US have poorer fuel efficiency? That begs the question: Poorer efficiency than what? Cars in Europe that require more resource consuming and expensive premium fuel? Cars from around the world, including Europe, that emit more than double the pollution allowed by US standards? Cars that don't meet US safety standards and would be as bloated with weight as US cars if the safety equipment is added? Cars (particularly small ones) that foreign manufacturer's won't ship to or can't legally sell in North America?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Eeyore wrote:

Really? And what sort of factual evidence do you base this factual conclusion on Grahmam?
You been buzzing around in the states in a bunch of chevys and fords lately?
lemme give you my actual (as in experienced) recent results. I drove a Chevy (humoungous) Imapala recently from BH to Baltimore (450+ miles) and back and averaged over 30 mpg. This is a bohemoth sized car and I was completely astounded at the mileage.
How? My guess i sth extremely high gearing and small displacement 6 cyl engine.
--
-Fred W

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

RWD police models included. OH yes those truck based SUVs also included, but they aren't cars.
Most NA cars for over a human generation have been very efficient and well built. In fact they were the first with stainless steel exhausts and body sheet metal galvanizing for lower priced cars.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I don't agree. Although I own two new Chevy's (Impala and Equinox)... I previously owned 13 Nissan's..... so it's not like I'm doing the rahrah American Car sthick. But in looking at the Chevy's line up, you'd be HARD PRESSED to find any brand that offers better gas mileage in a similarly sized vehicle. Even the huge Tahoe now delivers amazing mileage - better than anything else in it's size or class.
Willy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Willy wrote:

I can't speak to the whole lineup, but I have an '05 Chevy Impala as a company car. This is a very big car and I am not particularly fond of it, but this is what they give me. It gets over 30 mpg on the highway doing a steady 75 mph. Last week I drove from Manchester, NH to Baltimore, MD on a single tank of gas and was flabbergasted to find that the tank took less than 16 gallons.
--
-Fred W

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

As a matter of curiosity, what about it makes you say "you're not particularly fond of it"?
Willy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Willy wrote:

It handles like a boat. It really wallows on the road as the suspension is designed to be ultra soft. The small 6 cylinder engine is gutless. To pass requires the automatic transmission to downshift 2 gears and is still not a particlarly blistering acceleration.
The car that *I* own is an '03 SAAB 9^3 Vector. It has lots of power, snappy acceleration, decent handling, good comfort and gets 32 mpg (actual) on the highway.
Compared to the Vector, the Chevy is a dog. But it's free and comes with free gas and maintenance from my company.
--
-Fred W

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Fred W proclaimed:

rear ratio, a wider ratio transmission, good radials, and the old Quadrajet you could hit the low 20s with a 427 [390 hp] in an older Impala. With fuel injection that would go up quite a bit even tho the old Q-Jet wasn't that bad as long as you left the secondaries closed.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Not anymore. You're way behind the times. Traditional U.S. handling has simply gone out of style. I admit American cars are just a pile of cheap imported junk, but your description wasn't really very good. You may be right about the last bastion-ing. There's only one U.S.-made car with a live rear axle. Can you name it? I wonder if it's the last one in the world. Might well be.
And as for the G8, I'll take all the Australian cars they will send us. They have big rear drive cars in Australia, and people here want them. At least I do.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That "foreign" car just may be more American than a Big 3 car.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I was going to respond to the previous poster's statement about only being patriotic by buying American. I find that comment about 30 years out of date. Graham's vast overgeneralization about Americans (would that be North, South or Central Americans?) that "aren't very bright" deserves comment too.
While it may be said as a joke, nobody I know still seriously considers someone un-American if they buy a Toyota or Honda who offer the two most popular models in the US, made in California and Ohio, respectively. Nor are they more patriotic if they buy a Ford (which is probably made in Mexico), GM or Chrysler (either brand likely made in Canada). The only exception to this are the comments from members of the United Auto Workers trade union, primarily in Michigan. Don't make the mistake of assuming that the stupid outcries of one special interest group in one state in the United States has any meaning or impact to the citizens of the other 49 states.
Graham, your comments about Americans are consistently based on age-old stereotypes that are obsolete. When was the last time you saw the United States, and what tiny portion did you see? Or is it just your closed mindedness that makes your perspective tiny?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.