GM would be better of with just two domestic brands

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There are good reasons to have a value-leader brand (Chevrolet) and a luxury brand (Cadillac), but all of the reasons for the rest of the GM brands don't
really add up now that GM has eviscerated them through years of nonsense.
Toyota is kicking GM's butts with the Toyota/Lexus duo.
Starting with a clean sheet of paper today one would never assemble GM in it's current configuration of brands.
John
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John wrote:

It was worse fifty years ago. Don't complain.
---Bob Gross---
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GM is the largest auto manufacturer in the world, Toyota isn't kicking their butt at all. Read the Wall Street Journal.
Brian

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Brian wrote:

You might want to clarify your terminology. Some readers would interpret this to mean that GM manufactures the largest autos in the world (which might be correct!). It might mean that they sell the most units of autos. It might mean that they have the highest money volume of sales. It might mean other things.
---Bob Gross---
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I have been reading the Journal regularly for over 25 years now. I doubt that you actually do. If you do, then you should pay a bit more attention to the details.
GM is still for now the largest auto maker in the world based on unit sales, but they have been loosing market share in most markets for over fifteen years while Toyota has continued to gain share.
Toyota's total market capital according to today's WSJ online is over $125 billion. GM's is $27 billion. In fact, Toyota's market valuation is great than that of GM, Ford and Daimler Chrysler combined.
Defend GM if you like, but there is no question that Toyota today fields a higher quality, more profitable line of vehicles than does GM.
I hope GM fixes that problem as I'm a GM shareholder and own a GM vehicle, but I am getting rather tired of waiting for the turnaround to happen.
John
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First of all Johnny I do read the Wall Street Journal, not that I care what you think. And my point is that GM has more automobiles sold through out the world than Any other manufacturer. I'm not defending them or anyone, just stating a fact.
Brian P.S. I own Ingersoll-Rand stock, that's who I work for. And we are doing very well.

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<snip>

Can you get me a discount on Repair parts for compressiors? My old 230/231 air pump needs valve plates and check valves. Charles
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No.
But I don't work for the Air Solitions division anyway I work for the Secuity and Safety divison.
Brian
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Well Brian.
You said "Toyota isn't kicking GM's butt at all". If that isn't "defending them", what is?
John
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Just the facts mam.
Brian
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If GM got rid of Pontiac and Buick, I would probably switch brands of cars to say, something like Farrari. I love my Chevy Trucks, I like their RWD Vans, I like their RWD cars. Their FWDnon performance models are sorely lacking any interest from me. That goes tripple for the malibu & impala models. If Im going to buy a non perfromance orianted FWD it will be a Buick. Pontiacs have perfromance & comfert options.
As for Toyota Motor Company,you might want to check and see how much stock GM owns in it before making claims. Heck you probably don't know GM is the Majority stock owner of Isuzu, or that they own part of Sauzuki Motors, or that they own part of Deawoo. Not to mention controlling interest in Saab & Asain Motors.
A list of GM companies: Chevy Pontiac Buick Olds Caddy GMC Saturn Vuxhall Opel Saab Hummer (civialian) EMD EDS Holden
Im sure there are many more I have not even bothered to learn about.
As for a Caddilac, I would rather eat road kill then to be seen driving one. Charles
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GM has a joint venture with Toyota in California called NUMMI. Other than that, there are no reports of cross ownership.
What you call my claims are hard facts. A competitor which takes market share from you every year, earns several times higher profits than you per vehicle, receives more top rankings in quality and owner satisfaction studies than any other player and is valued by the stock market at nearly 5 times more money is in fact kicking your ass.

Get your facts straight brainiac. GM owns a minority interest in Isuzu and in fact reduced that interest from over 30% to under 20% of few years ago. Isuzu is in going out of business mode for passenger vehicles and soon will only have a re-badged version of the Chevy Trailblazer to sell. Isuzu's real strength is in diesel powered light to medium duty commercial trucks.
GM controls Daewoo (which you can not even spell correctly) thanks to buying most of it's assets out of bankruptcy.
GM now owns 100% of Saab and is struggling to turn around Saab's money loosing ways.
I've never heard of "Asain Motors". Perhaps you can enlighten us.
John
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Yep...and GM's management answer to all of this is to put useless gimmicky things on their cars instead of listening to what customers tell them they really want (or more likely what they don't want).
Some here have heard this one already, but my next door neighbor (he or his wife) still have not figured out how to turn off the headlights (not DRLs, but regular exterior lights) on their 2002 LeSabre. They go off with the ignition...but pop right back on again when started up...daytime or nightime...doesn't matter. I walked over one time while the two of them were playing around with the panel menues trying to figure it all out...I just laughed. I told him, "there is the light switch on the dash!". He said, "It does nothing." Hmmm...sort of sounds like the 2003 Malibu I used to own...it had a light switch that did nothing at night...his does nothing all the time. Interesting!! Well, GM has made operating simple functions of a vehicle as easy to do as operating a VCR. Congratulations are in order, wouldn't you say?
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These are probably the dumbest people I've heard about.
Are you suggesting that GM should design cars for the same people for whom they added a warning on coffee cups that it may be hot? :-)
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If the headlights are constantly on, when the ignition is in on posistion, the light sensor is bad, or blocked.
I found on a Canadian 1994 Trans Am (with DRL's), that if I covered the light sensor with a peice of paper, or my hand, the head lamps would come on. GM used to only use the DRL system in Canada.
As for a useless headlamp switch, twilight sentianal, automatically turns on your head lamps in low lighting condishions. It was a GM option on luxury cars for a number of years. In later years GM removed the sensitivity adjustment lever for it. As well as made it a standard feature on alot of vehicals.
My 1998 Buick Century has the automatic twilight sential systemm, with DRL's. In daytime snow storms or daytime rain, I have to pull out the headlight switch to turn on the headlamps. Ohio law requires that. Even though the ambiant light amount is not low enough for automatic headlamp turn on. By that same note, when I drive thru tunnels, in to my shop, or in to drive-thru stores, my headlights always automatically turn on.
Considering the number of people who get sighted per year for driving with out their headlamps on. As well as the number of crashes that result for such, GM did a good thing. Charles
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Hi:
Why not buy a Ford?
I've had the pleasure of working on them daily for the past four weeks, and they are plagued by electrical problems that are worse than the English Lucas electrical systems.
no wonder why they bought up most of British Leyland, so they'd have an excuse for their poor electrical systems and even worse excuse of a ECM/BCM.
Refinish King

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Here's a link that will quash any argeements:: "A Case Study of General Motors' Asian Alliances" http://edisto.cofc.edu/~wecapps/generalmotors.htm
It does not discuss all of GM's aqucitions, nor does it mention Asain motors.
I came across the referance to Asain motors when doing Resurch on the GM T-chassis Chevette, built from the Opel Kaddet C Chassis. The First true World Car. I do not have the resurch data any longer. Nor can I at present find any data on Asain Motors.
Going from memory it was a small Asian car company that sold cars in the Vietnam, Loas, Cambiada regions. It very well may have been a chinesse owned company, as I do get links to chinesse motorcycle makers by that name.
I miss spelled Daewoo with a simple letter reversial. Not something to pick on when you have facts to dispute. Name calling is not needed either. As for being a "brainiac", Im just a simple little Mechanic. Who grew up in a house with an Engeneer who always have other engeneers around. Growing up I heard a lot of talk about what was going on at GM, what was new in the engeneering fields related to automobile design & manufactoring. With that background I have held an interest in such. Especially GM made products.
If it interests you any. I own 2 Toyota cars. One Isuzu Truck, a Ford truck, 5 Chevy Trucks, 1 GMC Truck, 2 Buicks, 2 Pontiacs, & 2 Chevy cars.
The Majority of cars I repair are GM made, or subsidiary made. By choise, not by what breaks down. Charles
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<snip>
What that means to me is: Toy targets rich yuppies who are willing to over-pay. Toy is profiting off of cheap labour, where as chevy is still feeding americans.
I can tell you one thing, it's clear where my money goes.
~KJ/TLGM
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almost all of Toyota's cars intended for NA use are built here in NA (11 US, 1 MX, 2 CA) the only ones that aren't (if memory serves) are the MR2 Spyder, the Land Cruiser, and the Prius. Toyota made a huge impact in KY when they opened up the Camry/Solara/Avalon plant in Georgetown, it totally reversed to fortune of the entire area. so I wouldn't try and bash them on that account. fire away on rediculous parts costs if you want, or excessively priced new cars.
-Bret
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Like most people, I actually owned 2 GM's and one Ford in the late 70's thru 1988. After getting sick and tired of all the problems, in 1988 we decided to buy a Toyota Camry. Loved it, never had any problems with it. Since then over the past 16 years we have bought a total of 3 more toyota's. (Not even counting the fact that the kids only buy toyota and honda)
Maybe if the american car companies like GM had not screwed us over back in the day, we would give them another shot. But now, why would I ever choose to buy a gm or ford again when my only experience with them was problems.
I'll be the first to admit that perhaps today GM is as good or even better than toyota, but you know what, they screwed me over, toyota never did, so I will always give my business to toyota first. Thats the biggest problem american car companies like GM face. You cannot afford to screw over your customers and then ask them to come back (especially if someone else is taking care of them very nicely).
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