If I say got bored with the Saab, which would be the better bangernomics Alfa?

In news: snipped-for-privacy@news.individual.net, MeatballTurbo decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

164, HTH

You can get a quite nice 164 TS on around a H - J plate for about £250, £450 for a similar V6

any 75 for that money will be, and if I could work out how to do /italic/

*bold* and _underlined_

*F* /u/ _c_ *k* /e/ _d_

155s aren't quite in the bargain basement yet, you're looking at around £750 gbp for an early (not so good) 1.8 or 2.0.

Besides, the 164 is the best car of the three to introduce you to Alfa fun without completely bewildering you.

oh, you will get pissed off with the petrol flap opening whenever you open the glovebox though..

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This is what turns up locally.

Not looking for a real bargain basement trashcan. Probably arround the £500-1000 price.

I like the idea of the camchains on some models, was that the 8v only models? Or did any of the 16v's have chains?

It would be quite leggy and rough (generally) for that money. There's _lots_ to go wrong in a 164 (think stepper motors buried deep in the dash etc).

*ding*

Starting price for a good 75 is well over £500 - even then you'd better budget for things like clutches and gearbox rebuilds.

Yup. Agree with that. Paid £700 for my 2lt TS Lusso. I think it was cheap for the money - it's not perfect (having seen a skim of filler and a bit of paint) but it's got very good oily bits and no rust. I know I bought right at the bottom of the market, but also know I got a mid-market car for that money, IYSWIM.

I'd go with 155 myself. [1]

Heh.

[1] Although the 164 is, technically, a better car, it's also a bit too big and heavy for the old TS lump (IMHO). There's also the aforementioned heating system problems, which, although the bits are cheap to replace, require a full strip of the dash to get to. There's also the bloody expensive to replace 'computer control' panel in the middle of the dash - £200 minimum to replace if that goes wrong.

In favour of the 155 (early models) are the old Alfa alloy twinspark / twincam 8v engines with a camchain. They're utterly unburstable (also shared with the 164) while delivering pretty respectable performance (although the 200kg weight penalty over the older 75 shows under accelleration). Also very well built and styled inside - I'd say the quality is on par with an E36 3-series. Huge boot, decent rear seats, Lusso spec has all the toys you need (except aircon). Turns in decent economy, too at mid-30s mpg under hard driving. The downside of a 155 is that they're based on a Tipo chassis. Although this isn't such a bad thing.

Computer control panel? Eh? If he's after a 164 2.0 it won't have the climate control, just ye olde rotary jobs.. As for the 164 being heavy, they're only around 1380 kg. They're significantly lighter than anything else that size.. late 164's were heavier, but the early ones are shit loads lighter than, for example, a 5 series. Less rusty too.

The 164 used the same cam chain motor..

Oooh, this is from the man who slagged me off when I said I used to have a

155 Q4.. :-P

Avoid the 1st 2 - 164 is too cheap to be nice, and the 155 is poverty spec.

3rd one is the best 'starter' Alfa, 4th for someone with a bit more confidence ;-)

Get a nice, early-ish 155. Lusso is good - especially if it comes fully loaded with aircon and electric seats (although this just means there's more to break)

Only the 8v engine had a camchain. It was superior in every way to the Fiat based 16v that replaced it.

Hmmm. Never been in a poverty spec 2lt, then. Most I've looked at have push-button heating controls. Didn't realise they came with olde-worlde dials.

I said that up there.....

Ahhh, now that is even less of an Alfa than a standard 155. Reclothed Lancia Delta Integrale, isn't it?

In news:1gdya36.127hfs54hzezbN% snipped-for-privacy@italiancar.co.uk, SteveH decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

Yup, it's an Integrale in a sober suit.. And the Integrale shared lots of bits with????

5 points for first correct answer

Well, I suppose it was pretty close to all (mid-sized) Fiat group stuff from back then - and indeed, to this day.

However, it doesn't even have an Alfa reworked engine. Alfas are about the engine as much as anything else - and much as I love the turbo-charged Lampredi lump, it's just not a proper Alfa lump.

Why couldn't they have done a Q4 with the V6?

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Do you mean confidence in their driving, or in mechanics?

Remember I've driven a rear engined Skoda for edgy handling (bloody sweet actually), and a Saab turbo for performance.

And I'm not too bad mechanically, just not wonderful.

Both.

A 75 is very light for it's size, has 148bhp and 50:50 weight distribution - so you can appreciate that it can get you into trouble if you're ham-fisted with it.

If you buy a 75 you have to appreciate that it's a pretty old enthusiasts car - so won't have been pottered around at 30mph! - they're meant to be used and most owners do, IYSWIM.

Although the oily bits are very strong, there are some things to be aware of - synchro rings give up on the gearbox, and diff bearings give problems - I'd just sorted my 'box with a £500 rebuild. Also budget for a new clutch if it hasn't already been done (around £200 fitted).

Other than that I wouldn't expect any problems - but they're only the kind of problems you'd expect from any older performance saloon anyway.

Just have a good check for rust - they're partially galvanised, so it's not a big worry, but even this won't protect a car from 15-20 years of driving on gritted winter roads..... mine is solid, with only a little corrosion on the front of the OSR arch (in the doorshut) and under the NS tail-light - we're talking less than 1cm in diameter - but these are common places (for some reason it's always the NS tail-light, not the OS).

You'll be fine - although they're more mid-engined in their handling than RWD, IYSWIM.

You'll be fine ;-)

In news: snipped-for-privacy@news.individual.net, MeatballTurbo decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

Well, that's that 100% sorted then

the 164 is my old one. H262 VFM.

That's the garage I traded it into. It's ok. Needed front brake pads shortly. Otherwise it's excellent.

ah dude come on look at it! your saab looks far better than that ugly barge! i'd rather put up with the 27mpg :)

pah, that's my old 164, that is. Fuck all up with it.

I can list the faults on that car, here and now.

Oil pressure gauge doesn't work Doesn't matter, the light works fine back box is blowing very slightly there's a slightly knocky bush somewhere at the front, but nothing worrying needs front pads, oe will by now dent in n/s/r door. n/s/f door is occasionally awkward to open, because I stretched the little bar inside the door trying to open it when it was frozen solid. Car started first time though. front tyres are getting close to the limit.

Well worth £200.

It's a rare bargain, then. Most cheap 164s I've seen being sold by dealers / traders are absolute dogs.

Ideally the 75....classic RWD alfa. But as others have said, a shed at this price...

The 164 is a great drive too, but get a 9K instead it's better screwed together. :-)

As much as I love old alfa's (had a '77 Alfa GTV 2000 - love to find another! ) A friends nightmare of an Alfa 156 put me off the newer cars, dodgy electrics, new engine etc etc....

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I seem to be able to smell a goodish car even when it is caked in shit.

Both the Skodas, £95 and £80 needed bits, but never let me down, and the Saab £325, again needed some bits, but again never let me down either.

But the Saab is showing it's age, but still only done 132k, probably good for twice that again, but the wiring especially round the turbo si starting to get a bit flakey, and ideally needs a couple of slightly grotty bits of rust (small patches, pretty much none structural) sorting properly, and some laquer repair doing. Mechanically it is strong though in the engine, with some slack in the box, and some notchyness. Probably

50-100k left in the box, and about 200 in the engine the way it is going.

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Another of your old monsters showing up then....

In news: snipped-for-privacy@news.individual.net, MeatballTurbo decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

heh, I only got rid of it when I got the Capri.. bloke is (or thinks of himself as) a trader, I told him the 164 was worth a definate £450, and knocked the same off the price of the Capri.. He was happy with this arrangement... now he's flogging the 164 for £200.. So he either treats the car as a freebie, or he doesn't want it because the tax ran out at the end of April..

It's a bloody good car, that one. He's obviously heard horror stories about

164s, seen the oil pressure gauge and shit a brick!..

If I'd not done the deal for the Capri, I was considering buggering off to Zante on holiday and flogging the 164 to a couple of ex-pats I know out there, and I have total faith that it'd make it without a hiccup.. unlike the Range Rover I took there this time last year...

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Hmm, so was the gauge reading low then? Or just that Alfa saw fit to fit a gauge meant you have to keep an eye on it?