Off to car heaven

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GM does not make the military HMV.
wrote:


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"Dave U. Random" wrote:

Curious that they should wish to rid themselves of 2 of their most promising (and best styled IMHO ) lines ( Hummer excluded ).
When will the Americans ever learn ?
2 Saturn models are already effectively Opels ( except they insist on putting bigger engines in them plus slush boxes ) and fuel efficient along with the Saabs.
Let's hope Investor AB will take a bigger interest, or even Scania step in ?
Graham
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You don't appear to understand the American market...

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The DervMan
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were saying:

<adds to long list>

Scania's hardly likely to step in, since they're largely owned by VW - and in the financial shit themselves. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7867779.stm
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Adrian wrote:

Has VW really been taken over by Porsche? Was that Jan 2009?
Charles
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Charles C wrote:

That was supposed to be the deal, although I haven't 100% heard that it's gone through.
nate
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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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sounding much like they were saying:

Porsche have long held a significant stake in VW - and upped it last autumn to 40+% with a stack of options - which caused significant amusement at the expense of the hedge funds... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7697082.stm
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wrote:

It's not American's, per se. It's GM. Most Americans have a clue about cars, after many years of ignorance for most of them. Slowly they got a clue. That's why the "big three" are now going down the tubes.
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You're right. There's a significant number of the population that will only buy American. The numbers are declining, but are still there. Saturns and Saabs are not American enough to appeal to this group. They're also not European enough to appeal to those drivers who want something European (typically meaning BMW or VAG stuff as Mercedes seems to have always been its own appeal). Then there's the growing numbers who buy Japanese because "it works."
The same thing sort of happened in the UK; when the population realised that most of the home-built cars really were not put together properly and really did apart after four years but the European / Japanese stuff was still working, trends changed. Many Rovers were considered to be good cars in their day, usually had design faults or characteristics, but weren't so "meh" to drive as something Japanese nor as expensive as something European.
Ahhh I remember the import restrictions on Japanese cars in the early 1980s...
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DervMan wrote:

The restrictions for Japanese cars still exist across the EU as far as I know (import quotas), and they whey the Japanese bypassed that was to set up factories within the EU. Imported cars are still subject to quotas.
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:23:03 -0000, DervMan cast forth these pearls of wisdom...:

There is not really any "significant" number of the population that will only buy American. Never has been - at least not for the past 30 years. There have been buy American campaigns, but outside of those groups that fostered those campaigns, there has never really been a successful movement to do so. There certainly is not now.

Saturn was designed to appeal to a very narrow group and it did so. It's own reputation is what hurt Saturn. Saab is not an American car regardless who owns it. Saab has though, held quite steadily to it's market segment. It never did develop a large market segment, but not because it wasn't American enough.

I think you are over analyzing this stuff.
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:53:59 -0500, Mike Marlow

Baloney. I know many people who will only buy Ford, GM or Chrysler. A significant number of people. If you don't know this it's only because of the company you keep. But you don't have to personally know these people. http://promomagazine.com/research/car-shoppers-buy-american-0109 / "One-third of respondents to the survey conducted by Kelley Blue Book Marketing Research said they would only buy cars produced in America, while 12% indicated interest in buying Japanese-made cars and 5% expressed a preference for German vehicles."
If that's not clear enough, another take http://www.wmur.com/automotive/18445529/detail.html "One-third of new-vehicle shoppers say they would only consider cars from U.S.-based manufacturers such as General Motors, Ford or Chrysler, and that they would not consider vehicles from any other countries."
One third is a significant number. And that number has been much higher less than thirty years ago. If you have something to dispute except opinion, fire away.
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:58:09 -0600, Vic Smith cast forth these pearls of wisdom...:

Ok - I'll conceed to a certain point. I'll contend though that it is more because of what they like in those cars than it is because of a nationalistic thing - which I may have mistakenly read into the original post. I was responding to that nationalisitic thought - which may not have been what the OP intended in his post.

Ok - I'll conceed again. That percentage actually surprises me somewhat.

Relax Vic. Geezus - you're getting too fired up over this. It's only a usenet conversation - complete with opinions.
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:06:11 -0500, Mike Marlow

No anger intended. Sorry if it sounded that way. But it is actually a hot button of mine, as I buy American for nationalistic reasons. And that quote above says I'm not alone. "Not consider" seems to imply that, At the same time, I'm highly pissed at the "Big 3" for producing so much crap, and don't begrudge others for going foreign. Since I buy used, and know what to pick, I get very good value in buying GM. So I can't say it's *all* nationalistic. Some is just being frugal with cars. If I were a new car buyer, especially one who got burned by the 3, I might think differently. So until I kick in more than my normal few grand for a car, my credibility is suspect.
--Vic
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:52:26 -0600, Vic Smith cast forth these pearls of wisdom...:

Amazing - we buy in exactly the same way. I did switch from GM to Hyundai for the last two cars, and it's been good for me, but I was dyed-in-the-wool GM for the longest time - over 35 years. Like you, I got really pissed at GM for the manner in which they treated customers and ignored longstanding problems with their designs. I too only buy used (usually 1-2 model years old, 25K miles or so typically). I've had great GM cars, but the amount of repeat work I used to do on them finally pissed me off enough that I tried something else. Now - I wish they'd get rid of the Board and Wagoner, and get back to making the great cars that they are capable of, and standing behind them.
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:58:09 -0600, Vic Smith

The company I keep ranges form kids getting out of high school to WW II vets. At all levels, people are buying foreign. Attitudes have changed significantly over the last 30 years. There are not many folks left who will only "buy American". In contrast, I know quite a few folks that have espoused "never by another American made POS again". Seem the Big 3 dug themselves into quite a hole with the unwanted, unreliable crap they've manufactured.

Another meaningless "what would you buy" and "what do you prefer" survey. Check the percentage of vehicles on the road for Japanese & other non-American manufacturers. Try to prove that actual buying habits reflect that survey in any way, shape, or form.
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Wrong! The American's hasn't learned a thing yet. Just look at which car was the best selling in the US in 2008!! It was only because the gas-prices where skyrocketing, that the Americans started to look for alternatives. Now as gas-prices has lowerede again, the people who can afford to buy a new car, are right back on the ol' track....
I'll bet, that the 2008 bestseller, will become so again in 2009....!
Cheers!
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:59:13 +0100, "Henrik B."

There's a large number of people who will always buy a truck or SUV (regardless of the fact that they don't need it). Big toys for little boys. Cowboys on the road.
At the same time, quite a few Americans have smartened up and few have the anti-foreign or "buy American" idiocy they had in the past. The change in mix of cars in the USA over the last 30 years is significant.
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me turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

Actually, my wife's SUV (Saturn VUE) is quite small. Not sure why you equate SUV with huge size.
I only have a midsize Avalanche. I'd love an Excursion but they are just too big to fit in the tiny parking stalls they make nowdays.

I was having a discussion with one of my staff members just a few minutes ago.
He had just bought a '09 Infiniti (Nissan) G37s Coupe. I was telling him how I'd be interested in either the new Maxima (2009) or a Malibu for my wife. (She prefers sports sedans to her SUV, now that the kids can enter and exit the car themselves.)
He commented how neither he nor his friends would ever buy an American car. Keep in mind, he's 24 and single.
I see it every day. I wrote this on the Avalanche Club site back in late December. I was leaving the park with my rugrats and noticed the cars in the lot.
There were two Mercedes. One BMW. Two Lexus. Two Toyota. One Honda. One Acura. One Infiniti
Now, though the Mercedes was nice - it was a S600 - I felt a bit overwhelmed by the fact that the only North American vehicle there was my Avalanche. You can certainly see that US cars are in the minority where I live.
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like they were saying:

Which we get as the Vauxhall/Opel Antara, basically the same things as the Chevrolet (Daewoo) Captiva. Hardly "small".

Because they tend to be.

That's "midsize" as in "roughly the size of a house", I presume?
Oh, and please don't just change follow-ups mid-thread. It's a fairly authoritative sign of a fuckwit.
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