Re: U.S. Employment: GM vs Toyota

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Buy the Suburban. Toyota's are garbage.

The Oshawa GM plant happens to be #1 or close to it, and has been for many years.

Which company takes all the profit back to Japan? Which company has more cars imported into the USA/Canada then actually built there?
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80 Knight wrote:

Rewarding GM for current, and past, poor product as you and Mikey do is why GM thought they could get away with it. Their day of Chapter 11 may not be far off.
Toyota and Honda build here and the Detroit 3 (note: not Big Three-they are not) export jobs. Perot was right.
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That may be your opinion but If you do a search of the US Commerce Department site you will discover a far great percentage of the total number of vehicle sold in the US, by GM and Ford, around 80% are made in the US of domestically sourced parts, than the percentage of the total number of vehicles sold in the US by ANY import brand, at an average of less than 50%.
Of those assembled in the US they are primarily made with, what Toyota refers to in their current ads, of "World Sourced Parts" not domestic parts
In addition GM, Ford and Chrysler pay US corporate income taxes on their profits from sales in the US, Japanese corporation do not pay a penny in US corporate income taxes on their profits from sales in the US.

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You are incorrect. I like GM cars, have owned 11 or so, and I liked all of them. I *will* praise the company when it does good, and I *will* scald them when they screw up. See, that is the difference between myself, and the Toyota-nuts. I can admit GM has made mistakes. My sister has an '01 Pontiac Montana which had the gasket leaking problem. Didn't show up until well over 200,000 KM's, but it still cost around $1100 to repair. Do I blame GM for that? Your damned right I do. Bad design, bad materials, whatever. They should've fixed the problem way before 2001, and they should be paying to repair the problems (which I have heard they are). But pretending GM only builds garbage (which happens to win awards, oddly enough), and Toyo makes 'Gifts from the Heavens' is just stupidity.

You seem to be waiting with baited breath for that day. Tell me Jim, what is in it for you? What satisfaction will you get if GM were to shut down? Does it amuse you that a company (yes, a company who screwed up in the past) is trying to better itself (multiple vehicles winning multiple awards), but might go under in the process? That hundred's of thousands of people will be out of job's? That families will be torn apart? Which of this keeps you happy?

Toyo and Honda sell more imported cars/trucks/suv's in the USA/Canada then GM does, and you damned well know it. Maybe if either the USA or Canadian government would step in a straighten the trade law's out, things could actually get better.
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80 Knight wrote:

The Detroit Three (not the "Big" Three) brought this on themselves 80, no one else. Detroit bears the responsibility of tearing families asunder and of their incredibly poor vision, they desperately want to blame anyone other than themselves.
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You avoided my question. I am not talking about who is to blame, I am asking you what you are going to get out of it? Regardless of who is to blame, if you are pleased in thinking that GM may shut down (which, is not likely to happen, by the way), why? If you don't like GM, that is fine. But why be so happy about something that could destroy so many lives?
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80 Knight wrote:

Happy? Not hardly about so many lives screwed up primarily by stupidity at the top. Rick will survive quite nicely but *he*, and those like him, are the ones you should be raging at 80. Eventually the scales will balance when their cash flow gets worse. Get a life 80, there is such a thing as personal responsibility.
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I don't believe you. I think you get some sort of screwed up pleasure thinking about how GM could shut down. Unfortunatley, you are too selfish (or too stupid) to think of the regular joe's it is going to destroy, if it were to happen. And if you are not happy about it, why beg for it to happen?

I should get a life? Fuck you. You are the one on this newsgroup 24 hours a day, begging for GM to go under, probably because you are too incompetent to afford a decent car, and are jealous of the wages paid to the line workers. Why don't you think about someone other then yourself, you selfish asshole? GM isn't going anywhere, so perhaps you can find another company to wish doom on.
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80 Knight wrote:

GM did it to themselves 80, your cursing does not change the consequences of their actions. Now Rick and the Board want a bailout. $$$$
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And yet, you still have not answered my question. Why does the prospect of GM shutting down, destroying so many lives humor you? Why do you want this to happen?
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GM shutting down slowly like it does is destroying many more families than it would by declaring bancrupt straight. This way so much uncertainty about the future makes the best people move so towns are left without talent. Only the people who can get jobs elsewhere leave and whole districts become ghosttowns when the factory is finally closed. If GM would shut down completely now instantly nothing would happen other than a lot of new companies would be started immediately. There are a lot of examples of both processes. It is not us writing to this forum to decide what happens. We can only watch and see one mistake after the other happen. If GM had been smaller it would have closed years ago. Now it is a social disaster happening in front of our eyes. It is really interesting to see how stupidity and ignorance can continue like this day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year,decade after decade. It will obviously not be centuries. GM could have continued being a great company but they became arrogant and stupid and they deserve to stop. There is absolutely no chance it can turn the ship around. All we can do is hope they quit soon in order to minimize the misery they are causing.
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GM shutting down slowly like it does is destroying many more families than it would by declaring bancrupt straight. This way so much uncertainty about the future makes the best people move so towns are left without talent. Only the people who can get jobs elsewhere leave and whole districts become ghosttowns when the factory is finally closed. If GM would shut down completely now instantly nothing would happen other than a lot of new companies would be started immediately. There are a lot of examples of both processes. It is not us writing to this forum to decide what happens. We can only watch and see one mistake after the other happen. If GM had been smaller it would have closed years ago. Now it is a social disaster happening in front of our eyes. It is really interesting to see how stupidity and ignorance can continue like this day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year,decade after decade. It will obviously not be centuries. GM could have continued being a great company but they became arrogant and stupid and they deserve to stop. There is absolutely no chance it can turn the ship around. All we can do is hope they quit soon in order to minimize the misery they are causing.
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I honestly don't know which one of you two (you and Jimmy) is the bigger idiot. You both want to see GM go under, but you actually think it is definitely going to happen. Sorry Gosi, you keep watching and see how GM brings itself back to number 1.
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It would be like watching munchausing pulling himself and his horse out of a swamp by his own hair.
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80 Knight wrote: > Sorry Gosi, you keep watching and see how GM

Dude, hate to break it to you, but there is 0% chance of that happening. GM is reaping what they have sown. Crap cars for 30 frickin years (of which I owned 11-12)
I can see clearly now, the Japanese are here.....
03 Maxima 6-speed (Fun!) 03 G35         (Show!)    
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If you don't think it is going to happen, that is fine, but there is a large probability it will.
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I would seriously doubt that anyone on here wants GM to go bankrupt, while all of us would probably want them to clean up their act.
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wrote in message

How can you possibly read Jimmy Higgins or Gosi's posts and not believe they want GM to go under? Perhaps you aren't paying attention.
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80 Knight wrote:

Or perhaps you and Mike Hunt are Jekyll/Hyde. All of your rage doesn't change the fact that GM has lurched from crisis to crisis with little coherent planning. Their failures have hurt a *lot* of people, no rational person likes to see such but facts are facts. Further talk is pointless.
--
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"GM stock hit a 34-year low ($10.57). Ford's stock tumbled to $4.46 a share. Barron's reports that late last week, "some [funds] designed for individual investors are selling at about 50 cents on the dollar- GM is headed for bankruptcy."
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wrote in message

Hey, I will be the first one to admit GM has screwed up, and that they are in quite a mess right now. However, they are getting back to having an impressive product line. More 30MPG vehicles then any other manufacture, award winning vehicles (Chevy Silverado, Malibu, Impala), and better built vehicles. I totally agree GM needed to get there act in gear in order to compete with the Japs, and I think they actually are. They even beat out Toyota in the Q2 sales.
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