Kia Optima beats Accord

...as long as they can sustain above average frequency of repairs...

Who? Kia or Honda?

'cuz, Honda is right there at 1989 Hyundai levels as we speak.

No, that's not so. Take a look at the frequency of repairs data in last month's Consumer Reports-- the automotive issue. You'll find Honda very highly rated year after year. True the Accord is only average this year but look at the 10 year trends...

frequency of repairs of /what/? the p.o.s. transmissions honda have been using for the last 10 years have been a serious issue and both the failures and the customer service related to them have been so bad that they've alienated many die-hard [former] honda customers.

A detailed F.O.R. of all major systems and accessories listed individually and broken out by year. There's a whole lot of hard data there that refutes your assessment of the transmissions.

Who? Kia or Honda?

'cuz, Honda is right there at 1989 Hyundai levels as we speak.

Read the comments with interest, but I think Honda has hit a slump or perhaps they have marked time while others caught up. Consider the quirky styling of the Acura line. The Cross-tour is another example that I really don't understand. The Accord and the coupe are now fat and ponderous looking. On the other hand the Fit is just right. The new Civic is -- bland -- does not achieve the same impact the last model did when it came out. The Hyundai Elantra on the other hand is more interesting. I remember in 1968 at the Tokyo Motor show ( I was in the USAF at the time) looking at the Honda CB 750 on a revolving pedestal and thinking-- WOW! It was just that -- bold -- a 4 cylinder in line motorcycle with a disc brake for around the same price as one would pay for a Triumph Bonneville. It was not commonplace. I don't see that anymore in Honda. The S2000 was perhaps the last real gasp.

hmm, let's do this troll's homework for him, google "honda transmission problem" and look at the first page of "About 597,000 results":

new york times??? edmunds??? consumer reports??? don't see anything from troll st journal though so they must all be hoaxes.

"tww1491" wrote in news:X10yp.12901$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe03.iad:

Four people I personally know were considering Honda, but bought Hyundai: three bought Hyundai Sonatas, and one bought a Kia Soul. A fifth was interested in the Toyota Yaris, but purchased a Hyundai Accent instead.

All said they were impressed with Hyundai's content, and said you could not beat that content for that price.

I think it's more than that: I think it's simply price-for-content. Looks, or what happens five- or seven-years from now, does not seem to matter to most; it's the purchase price that seems to mean most to most buyers. Hyundai/Kia is as cheap as it gets, and Hyundai/Kia are now familiar enough with buyers that they're tending to consider those brands to be competitive with Honda.

Honda has got to be worried.

On 5/9/2011 8:17 PM jim beam spake these words of knowledge:

Colonel, you must be new here. No facts ever refute the beamer. But he

*is* cute!

RFT!!! Dave Kelsen

They are worried, actively worried, about Hyundai/Kia--and they are desparately, in a panic, doing any random things they can to try to attract those very customers.

3 years? That's all you need to worry about. And that's how Honda is building their cars.

Honda is the new GM/Ford/Chrysler, all over their inability to compete with Hyundai/Kia to their satisfaction.

One wonders if Honda even has the ability anymore to be what they used to be, or if they've lost it over the last ten years during the triple-punch of Hyundai competition, the downturn of the economy, and--going back 15 years now--their turning of the company over to the beancounters and away from the engineers.

I wonder how Subaru reliability compares to Honda models. Any data on that? I don't mind if it is only anecdotal.

With all the citing of the decline of Honda, what brand do you folks otherwise now recommend? I want to be prepared ahead of the time when I will need a new car. I was figuring on someday buying my fifth Honda, but.... ?

yeah, you and me both.

I dunno. Toyota is doing well for me, but I hate the dealer support in my area.

Subaru has an extremely loyal following, but hell--so did Honda.

Mazda maybe...

Certainly not VW, or M-B. The Germans make GM look like...Honda.

I have some inside word that the Honda brand has really been the one to take the hit--that Acura still does it right. Mebbe. But damn, they're fugly. Well, maybe you can't have everything.

One thing I liked about Toyota dealer service over Honda was that Toyota gave you a loan car and Honda did not. That was a great convenience and I did not feel Toyota service was more expensive to compensate for that.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:

Add me to the list.

Back in '91 I went to the Toyota dealer looking for another Corolla Liftback. Seeing they had nothing of the kind other than wagons, I went elsewhere, finding what I wanted with Honda in the form of the Integra hatch.

I look now, to replace the 'Teg, and other than the TSX Wagon (overpriced), I see nothing I like.

That's very much a local thing, and should be locally considered. Dealer support is critical.

My local Acura dealer has been an absolute dream. Not perfect by a long shot, but good enough to make me wonder whether paying a bit more for the TSX wagon might not be worth continuing with my dealer...

I /really/ like the 3 Sport. /Really/ like it. Not sure about the local Mazda dealer, though.

They're built in the same plants with the same workers and many of the same parts. In most markets "Acura" models are sold as "Honda".

I don't like the looks of anything these days. Mazda 3 included.

"Howard Lester" wrote in news:iqcd8m$1q1$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

From what I'm hearing, Hyundai. Hyundai has made massive gains since the early-'90s. Hyundai is now a legit competitor to Honda. Honda knows it too, copying Honda's market offerings almost line-by-line.

I'm hearing (first hand) absolute raves about the new Sonata, which costs way less than the Accord. On the other hand, the Accent purchased by another acquaintance is not looking promising: dealer messed up the A/C system big-time when installing the "carbon fiber" trim pieces, and has not yet been able to fix it, and the right-hand signal-repeater now has moisture inside of it...

"Cameo" wrote in news:iqcjmk$qrl$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

That was neither Toyota nor Honda, but the DEALER you dealt with. The company that owned the Toyota dealer had a policy of giving customers a free loaner, while the owners of the Honda dealership did not.

Once the automaker sells the car to the dealer, they do not much care what the dealer does with it afterwards.

People, please, try to remember this: the dealer is NOT--repeat--_NOT_ the automaker! Dealer owners simply lease FRANCHISES from the automaker. Otherwise they are totally separate entities.

See here:

The Wiki page deals only with restaurants and service industries, but the concept (and legal environment) is identical when it comes to retailing branded-products such as cars.

(Mercedes is an exception to the above, so don't try and make a connection between Mercedes dealerships and those of other automakers.)

Tegger wrote in news:Xns9EE1CFFA52758tegger@208.90.168.18:

Correction: HYUNDAI knows it too,...".

OK, granted. However in my area all Toyota dealers seem to do it so I assume the reason being some kind of Honda corporate program that entices the dealers to offer loaners.