Where's the Hybrids!

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Balfa wrote:


The look on the owner's face when they realize this...priceless.
Sorry...couldn't resist. ;-)
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No, but he wanted the technology that is in the car. It really is a unique car, mainly for city driving is where it gets the best mileage. And who knows where gas can go in 5 years....
I had the same dicussion with him, about he could get an Elantra, for 1/2 the price, put the $12,500 in a mutual fund and when the Elantra wears out after that fantastic waranty, he would have enough money to buy another Elantra with some extra cash to boot!
He does keep cars well past 100K miles though.
So if he is happy... that is all that matters. :)
ElantraStan http://www.stanarseneaux.com/elantra /
snipped-for-privacy@hirise.com

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id like a car with great highway milage, we have to drive two hours just togo grocery shopping, store in our towns to $$ to do a big shopping load.. Our Accents pretty good but it could be better also on gas... Thats why id like to have a diesel... damn hyundai bring them to canada already!!!!!!!!!!!

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"The Commander" wrote:

That’s a very cool way of looking at it :)
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Until we get cleaner, higher quality diesel in the US that is cheaper to buy than regular unleaded (as is the case in the UK), diesels really aren't going to take off. If the best selling 1 series BMW in the UK is the 120D -- and not just because of the cheaper fuel and better mileage -- then it proves it is possible to create a DERV that doesn't sound like a piece of farm equipment at idle or at speed.
Diesel has a bad reputation in the US, and that needs to change.
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its about 3.70 here for a gallon, 1.00 a litre, im glad we have a accent.

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| > yuup hyundais draggin there ass on the hybrid thing for northamerica.
I think we can let the Koreans off the hook about this one. I'll explain. I've discovered that here in Silicon Valley, Korean companies have actually been doing their R&D. I suspect that a good amount of their auto design (certainly styling) has been done in California, too (Los Angeles, in this case).
There are some aspects of American engineering that I've found in my Sonata. I can't talk much yet about this because I haven't had the car long. But my ears really perked up when Hyundaitech reported that my transmission actually has a drain plug: Hooray! That's the way American engineers like to design, and it's what you'd get in an American car before the penny-pinching cost vultures suck the quality out.
My Ford Aerostar had no coolant bleed valve. You know how you bleed the air form a Ford Aerostar? Simple: you tilt the entire goddamn van and wait for the bubbles to go to the top. You do this three times. Who decided to remove the bleed valve and why?
We can excuse the Koreans because they've not been in the car business that long, and they've done rather nicely, considering.
The US carmakers have no such excuse. Honda was working on a solar car in 1974. Was Detroit? Detroit car makers have behaved as if oil people sit on their boards. There's no other explanation I can think of to explain why they'd rather lose huge amounts of business to foreign firms than to make an efficient car.
I've seen a patent for a hybrid American truck dated 1926! Various forms of regeneration have been used in electric railroads since the early 20th Century. We had a good example here in the American West until surrounding mergers put the carrier under.
Dunno.
It would seem that we would benefit from a Federal incentive crash program for domestic efficient cars -- hybrids certainly. Will the current Administration or Congress step up to the plate on this one? What would the patriotic thing be to do?
Richard
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On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:05:15 -0700, "Richard Steinfeld"

At the Petersen Car Museum in Los Angeles I saw an unrestored gas/electric hybrid car that was manuafactured in 1918.
Old_Timer

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I'm almost looking forward to the $3.50 a gall July price spike....It'll get a bunch of idiots off the roads here. Should lead back to car pools and lighter traffic. Huge mammoth trucks driven by 4'11'' soccer moms with a I'm getting even with the world attitudes tend to annoy me. 6K LB Trucks with only a driver might be a bit rarer on the parkways. Two car families might go back to having 1 good size sedan and a small runabout for the short 1 person trips vs a Suburban & Hummer. Cafe rules might force a fleet mileage increase for once vs the current Loophole heaven.
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arent you the lucky one gas just hit $102.9 cents per LITRE here in Canada on vancouver island...

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wow a 2 c difference, not much actually, but i wonder how high its going to go? Im smack in middle of canada just 4 hrs from manitoba border in ont

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snipped-for-privacy@despammed.com wrote:

So why did you buy a Santa Fe? Get rid of it and buy an Accent. Problem solved.
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My 4 cyl auto trans Santa Fe gets better gas mileage & has plenty of room for humans as well as freezers, trees, and other large items I'd have to pay delivery charges for.
Hyundai had a news article on Accent going by by to a MC or something like that which is their hybrid for 2005. But where is it? Still a small car, not the Tucson as I was told by Hyundai USA last year that is fleet service hybrid only.
Brian Nystrom wrote:

on
purchaser!!!!
Problem

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snipped-for-privacy@despammed.com wrote:

Better mileage than what? If you mean better than an Accent, you're dreaming! Thats' not even remotely possible.

Well, if is saves you so much money on other things, what are you complaining about?
How often do you carry more than four people, or more than two, for that matter? Asmall car, a trailer hitch and a cheap utility trailer costs a lot less than an SUV, hauls more stuff and gets better gas mileage when you're not hauling the trailer.

Who said anything about a Hyundai hybrid for '05? I haven't heard about anything coming out this year.
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whine, whine, whine
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We had been purchasing Chrysler products exclusively since the late 70s, but bought a Hyudai Accent for my son as a Christmas present in 2003. We bought a Hyundai 350L for my wife last November. Within the next few months, I be ready to buy a new vehicle for myself, but it won't be a Hyundai.
I've decided my next vehicle will be a hybrid, and that eliminates Hyundai from consideration. Hyundai now produces a quality product... just not the right product... at least not for me!
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There is a long article in the actual ATLANTA CONSTITUTION this morning regarding the hybrid car situation
www.ajc.com
If anybody can find & link/post it, please do--just be sure to note it is "copyrighted 2005 by the ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION" if ya post it
The usual fools have got it hidden, or whatever their interneter does with some of their more important articles
Here's what I recall while coffeeing:
The bad Middle Eastern terrorist-tinged f'ing oil, so that the marketplace can work its perverse magic
Caveat: The above are my opinions, and if ya think otherwise, then I hope you're correct, because I have a sense of tragedy/absurdity of which I would not want to be reality but fear it is close to the truth(s)
Tell me that approx current Prius/Hyundai $10,000 difference doesn't substantially matter to you
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Middle | Eastern terrorist-tinged f'ing oil, so that the marketplace can work | its perverse magic |
But there are other factors. Toyota is also a financial company; you may not be aware that they make a substantial percentage of their profit by trading currency! They might be inclined to license their patents to anyone if the price was right. And, at least within Japan, this type of exchange has been part of inter-corporate relations for a long time. And what about Honda?
Toyota also does not have a lock on hybrid technology; of course, they've got their own implementations of it patented. But the hybrid concept has been around for at least 70 years, and it's been in use, too -- in parts here, parts there. And how many of these patents are for design, not function? So, perhaps an alternative hybrid set of designs might not be as efficient as Toyota's, but it might be a nice efficiency boost nonetheless.
I agree with you that the Japanese manufacturers won't want to help out a cheap-labor competitor, unless there was a big payoff for them. And don't forget that China's right around the corner, ready to undercut the Koreans. Even the Koreans are having some of their manufacturing labor "offshored" to China.
Now, why have the American car makers behaved for years and years as if their boards-of-directors were dominated by Texas oil men?
Richard
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Richard: "Now, why have the American car makers behaved for years and years as if their boards-of-directors were dominated by Texas oil men? "
Me: Well, I am gonna inflict further wackoish speculations and folkish lore financial theory(ies) upon ye; so best prepare yerselves for more doom 'n gloom cynicism and pessimism, because this i perceive as true, and I should hereaby apologize for the (appropriate) vulgarities:
Robert Cohen Sep 5 2003, 5:59 pm show options
Newsgroups: alt.philosophy From: snipped-for-privacy@aol.com.spam.no (Robert Cohen) - Find messages by this author Date: 06 Sep 2003 00:59:14 GMT Local: Fri, Sep 5 2003 5:59 pm Subject: Catch 22: The Petro-Dollar Paradigm Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse
Reality is comic-tragic-absurd.
Subject: Krugman Column About China From: snipped-for-privacy@aol.com.spam.no (Robert Cohen) Date: 9/5/03 8:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Paul Krugman of the NYTIMES is a political-economist.
Today's column states that the (mainland) Chinese--if pissede at the U.S. for applying yuan re-evaluation pressure, or for whatever political economic reason--could conceivably stop buying U.S. treasury securities.
Krugman claims this could conceivably result in an American Fed interest rate increase of TWO percentage points.
The Chinese could just buy Euro denominated securities, says Professor Krugman.
In other words: "fucke the U.S."
I believe him.
My further observation-conjecture-paranoi­a:
The reason (imho) there is a prevailing petro-dollar paradigm--why our cars don't run on steam or sun or anything (generally-massively) but the usual conventional petroleum--is that our political economic oil dependency is in a catch 22.
The Saudis would/could conceivably find it necessary for revenge to withdraw their investments in U.S. government and in U.S. institutional bonds and securities.
The Saudis could conceivably buy Euro denominated securities, and thus unsubtlely say, "fucke the U.S."
The changeover time from petroleum demand to something else (steam, hydrogen, hybrid) would be so chaotic that the U.S. would discombobulate..
Such is seemingly actually why nothing of massive substance has been done since 1973 about foreign oil dependency.
The alternative energy stuff has been so much bullshite propaganda and tokenism because of the catch 22.
Jimmy Carter may have cried to himself when he realized such sitting in his sweater at the White House fireplace.
He got morose on tv, as ye oldsters will recall.
The hydrogen fuel cell thing is apparently pie-in-the-sky malarkey added to a recent Bush speech to pacify critics.
Because the international financial system is delicately inter-dynamic and inter-dependent.
Nothing truly technologically revolutionary-radical can be done without such dire consequences.
Walter Mondale couildn't tell ya this, though it is what I perceive as ominous reality.
Krugman's column about inter-dependence of China & U.S. is at via:
http://www.nytimes.com
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What's an hybrid car? Take this fine SUV, or get the h outa GM's showroom
copyrighted by the los angeles times 2005
www.latimes.com
GM to Stop Los Angeles Times Advertising
LOS ANGELES (AP) - General Motors Corp. says it will stop advertising in the Los Angeles Times, at least temporarily, because of dealer concerns over ``factual errors and misrepresentations'' in the newspaper's articles and editorials.
The newspaper, which is owned by Tribune Co., will review coverage that prompted the complaints from the world's largest automaker, said Times spokesman David Garcia.
GM spokesman Brian Akre would not identify which stories or editorials the company objected to, but said it had been a series of reports over the past several months. ``We made our objections known to the Times and we prefer to keep those private,'' he said Friday by telephone from Detroit.
He said the decision was made this week because of ``strongly voiced objections from our dealers in Southern California regarding factual errors and misrepresentations in the Times editorial coverage.''
``We recognize and support the news media's freedom to report and editorialize as they see fit,'' Akre said. ``Likewise, GM and its retailers are free to spend our advertising dollars where we see fit.''
The ban covers corporate advertising, not individual dealer ads in the classified section, he said. The company did not say the cancellation was permanent.
``There are ongoing discussions, which is all we can say,'' Akre said. ``This is an extremely rare occurrence.''
Garcia said in Friday's editions that the newspaper ``will look into any complaints GM has about inaccuracy or misrepresentation and will make any appropriate corrections.''
On Wednesday, the paper published a column by auto critic Dan Neil that called GM, which has struggled recently with sluggish sales, ``a morass of a business case'' and called for the ``impeachment'' of two executives. Among other criticisms, Neil said GM ``utterly missed the boat on hybrid gas-electric technology'' while speeding up production of SUVs.
Neil won the 2004 Pulitzer Prize for criticism, cited by the judges for ``one-of-a-kind'' reviews of automobiles blending technical expertise with ``offbeat humor and astute cultural observations.''
When asked about columns by Neil, Akre said, ``It was not any one column or story.''
Neither GM nor the newspaper, which has a daily circulation of 900,000, would say how much the automaker spends on its Times ads.
There are eight GM lines doing business in Southern California: Chevrolet, Pontiac, GMC, Cadillac, Saab, Hummer, Saturn and Buick.
Akre said he didn't know how many dealers had complained.
Tribune shares fell 65 cents to close at $38.87 in Friday trading on the New York Stock Exchange, near their 52-week low of $38.51.
© Copyright The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained In this news report may not be published, broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.
04/08/2005 16:50 APO
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