87 YJ eating starters and a few odds and ends

I assume it's having a mechanical problem one and not an electrical one? What do the starters do when they fail, just spin and not turn the engine? When you take a bad starter out what exactly has failed?

I'm not sure what setup this has, perhaps it has a solenoid that's hanging up and keeping the starter spinning after the engine has started?

Jeff DeWitt

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Your heating and venting system probably has a frozen or bent cable or two. The Jeep Wrangler Haynes Manual 50030 (1777) isn't too bad for removing the heater. It drops down and backwards once the heater cables, defroster duct, and mounting bolts are removed. You have to drain the cooling system too. Usually the cables are sold individually, instead of in a kit, but the dealer is the one who will know for sure. I prefer the "mouse trap system" to the annoying vacuum servo motors in my Suburban, but it takes all kinds.

Earle

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from ***

The starter had to be loose to snap a bolt. Maybe you have been using the wrong bolts all along?

We 'kill' starters like crazy when we used to mud run. The mud packs up inside of them and seizes up the brushes when it dries out. Rather than having to replace them, we open them up and give them a good spray with WD40 to clean all the crap out, then regrease parts as needed and put them back in.

That said, the brand of starter you are using could just be plain bad. I got a bad couple of 'rebuilt' starters that did kill my ring gear so I went to a different brand with the new gear. Sure the damn starters were under warranty, but they didn't cover the engine removal to replace the ring gear or the gear itself.

I highly recommend you get the Haynes 'CJ' manual. This one covers your CJ engine and heating system 1000 times better than the YJ book. All your cables need a good grease job once in a while. I did mine 6 years ago and need to do them again soon because the top fresh air cable is getting too stiff again.

Some people say they can get the heater out if they remove the passenger side seat for room, but taking the dash off is by far the best way. There is one real nasty nut to undo that sits at the edge of the valve cover on the engine side firewall.

When I had mine apart, I upgraded to a massive GM heater blower motor. This motor fits right into the heater box and literally puts out more on low than the stock motor put out on high. I can defrost all the windows and drive in -20 with no gloves or boots needed.

You are likely in for trouble with the gas tank skid plate. If it is that rusty, the bolts are not likely to come out. The bolts into the rear crossmember are carriage bolts so you can cut them off and push out the heads. The front ones have nuts on them. A grinder or dremil tool with a fiberglass cut off wheel can be real handy for getting them apart.

The gas tank comes down with the skid plate, so an empty tank is recommended.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail >

I wonder also if this vehicle has a bolt hole in the clutch housing out of place. Modern quality control and manufacturing methods seem to preclude this, but I have seen stranger things happen.

Earle

Just for kicks... Check the teeth on the flywheel. Are they cog-shaped, or are they shark-tooth shaped. They need to be rather square looking or will continue to eat starters.

Thanks for all the info on these repairs. I am going to attempt to tackle the heating problem at some point this summer. I am missing several parts from comparisons to the repair manuals that may have rusted off or disappeared over the years. I will attempt to track all these down. Is it necessary to remove the entire heater assembly before repairing these cables?

I have one other question, for all you gear heads and tinkerers. What is best way to get a bolt out that is stripped and won't budge? I had to replace my seat belts as my 20 year old ones were wearing pretty thin. The bolt that holds the seat belt retraction mechanism (at the bottom) stripped like a hot knife through butter...stupid torx bolts. anyways, I have to remove this bolt and I don't know how. Mechanics that I have talked to don't even want to touch this one either. It is a harden bolt where the back is not accessible. I have heard that heating the bolt can be one way to remove it? How does one do this and does that work? I have not had luck drilling bolts out in the past, even very small ones, I don't want to try to drill this sucker out.

Thanks,

M

Do we understand that the Torx 'teeth" have been stripped out?

On those, I usually take a cut off wheel in a dremil or drill and cut a straight line across the head of the bolt to make it like a slot head. I then use a cold chisel and hammer to try and make it turn or put a bar into the slot and pull while tapping it (the bolt head) with a hammer.

You might want to drill a pin hole just above where the nut should be so you can get some good penetrating oil in there and soak it many times over a few days.

You can leave the heater in place and just open the dash to get at all the cables, but if you have gone that far, the GM blow motor upgrade is great. The radio and glove box will be in the way of getting at the fresh air vs heat cable. Once you have opened it the first time, then you or I at least have long enough arms to muck around under there without being able to see what I am doing. That top lever system for the fresh air can get bitchy. My grease has dried out, so I have to reach wayyy up there and flip the sucker if I want fresh floor air. I need to pull my dash soon and re-grease the cables and change the voltage regulator for the fuel and temp out for an electronic one I made up.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail >

Bolt out. Thanks.

I believe that the starter problem has been solved, or will be solved. See if this makes any sense to those in "the know".

Apparently, the bearings in the drive shaft are believed to be worn down in side the engine. This then allows a small amount of play in drive shaft. The clutch pushes on the flywheel smashing it into the starter, ripping out the teeth. After my replacement of flywheel, starter, and clutch compression pad.......when the clutch is depressed and started, there is a very nasty clanging sound. When the clutch is not depressed and started (in nuetral) there is no claning sound at all. How does that sound?

I read something on this group site a while ago about the cam shaft being worn down and leading a similar fate for a starter. Could that also play?

I have yet to tackle the heater system due to the frustration with the starting. Thanks for all the help, I am sure it will help.

Mark

Mike Roma> On those, I usually take a cut off wheel in a dremil or drill and cut a

If this is the case, then he should be able to test the crankshaft end play at the harmonic balancer. Normally, one would use a dial gauge, but the way this sounds, a tape measure might work.

Mark, grab the belt drive pulley, on the crankshaft, and see if you can pull it in and out, with an audible "thunk". The best place from which to do this, is probably from under the front of the engine. If the thrust bearing is excessively worn, you would also have oil leaking onto the front of the flywheel, contributing to your starter problems.

Earle

That does not make much sense. If the bearings are that worn, it should be just puking oil out and the tell all is you will have no oil pressure. Or the engine has been in a 'hard' front end accident which can crush the thrust bearing.

As others have mentioned, if indeed the thrust bearing is gone, then you will be able to pull in and out on the front crankshaft pulley with a clunking noise.

If it is only that one bearing gone (how is the oil pressure?), you 'can' just open it and change the one part.

Do you have the correct flywheel in there? Why did you change it? When the starter goes out and eats the flywheel teeth, you only have to change the ring gear.

If the teeth are getting eaten it is more likely a bad bushing in the nose of the starter.

What happens if you leave your foot off the clutch and just start in it neutral.

A clanging sound is bad news. That needs to be figured out. Usually that means someone forgot to tighten a bolt or the throwout bearing got in wrong or is the wrong one.

Mike

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: