heating oil as fuel

OTish, but I remember some years ago looking over an army Gazelle helicopter and noticed the refuelling point. It had stencilled in BIG letters AVTUR. However, it also had a list of other possible fuels it could be filled with in extremis and the list was long. It included the forementioned AVTUR and also the AVTAG and AVCAT varieties, but could also use AVGAS, MOGAS, KERO and DIESO. I can't remember the full list now but I wouldn't be surprised if it had also included FFO, cook-house chip fat, dead cats, ditch water and rat wee.

Steve

Reply to
Steve
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Gawd! I feel sorry for you blokes (not really )

At least our fuel is still about 1/3 the cost of yours and I can afford to run a 4.6 - albeit mostly on LPG - I fuelled up last night.with 80 litres of petrol and 70 litres of LPG and the total cost was A$102 - about 41 quid.

R> > Flamin' heck!

Reply to
The Becketts

Indeed! AVTUR is nato code F34, it is basically KERO with an additive pack, AL38. This pack comprises Fuel System Icing Inhibitor (FSII) commonly referred to as "fizzy" and HYTEC, a lubricity additive. AVTAG and AVCAT are variations of a theme, one doesn't have the FSII additive and the other is, I think, a "Wide-Cut" fuel which was used by the navy mainly, due to a higher flash-point for fire safety on ships. Our poor relations across the pond devised a civillianised system for aviation fuels (which their military use, ignoring the Nato designations!) which has different designations again, JP8 being the same as AVTUR or F34, JET-A1 being AVTUR without the AL38 additive pack. AVGAS is 100/110 octane petrol, used to be low-lead (hence all the stories of car engines blowing up in the past!) but is now lead-free and not in wide military use. MOGAS is a new one on me, but MTGAS used to be in wide use in the days of the S111 landys. MOD policy now is to buy only diesels that will run on AVTUR, certainly for vehicles that may see action, as this means transportation of one fuel only to a remote zone. FWIW, the Gazelle was reputed to run on any liquidised hydrocarbon at all!! Badger.

Reply to
Badger

the 2 types of heating oil i am referring to are both white in colour .

the first is "28 second" kerosene which is what is used mainly in oil fired central heating systems and workshop heating systems .

this 28sec kerosene "can" be used in diesel engines ,and it is white in colour as is white diesel , but of course i must stress using it on the road isnt legal due to no excise duty being paid on it ..

the only problem with using 28 sec is that if you have a rotary injection pump the 28sec fuel will not sufficiently lubricate the pump internals on its own , hence why many people use a 50/50 mix of white diesel and 28sec burning oil .

of course if you wanted to play with mixture levels you could put motorcycle

2 stroke oil in with the 28sec heating oil and it will then have lubrication , but i do not know the levels of mix reqd .

the other type of "heating" oil i refer to is paraffin and this is white in colour and is zero octane rated , this is also known as lamp oil.

red diesel i was not referring to , as we all know what this is and that it contains dye ...

Reply to
M0bcg

Yep, I think a little allowance had to be made for the different specific gravity of the fuels if you filled up with "non-standard" brew too (i.e. not your home base fuel).

I think JP4 is/was AVTAG equivalent - mostly used in Germany and by the rest of European NATO.

Again, IIRC, AVGAS was 100/130 octane (and a very pretty blue colour). You could also get 145 octane, but I think they were all leaded fuels. The advent of the new AVGAS 100LL is where the Low-Lead came in. The blowing up stories were probably urban myth put about to deter pilfering!!

MOGAS - MOtor GASoline, i.e. car (98 RON) petrol. It's possibly more of an aviators term/abbreviation to differentiate it from AVGAS and the dog-food RON MTGAS.

The added bonus is that they don't have spark plugs that get wet when you have to splish aggressively through a few puddles! "Sorry, can't fight - too many puddles".

Reply to
Steve

Nearly - 28 second is Kerosene (which is Paraffin) and will run a diesel engine, but have low power output(and you can smell it in the exhaust a mile off). The other type is 35 second and is Diesel and contains a chemical marker and is also often red.

Reply to
Simon Atkinson

one of the agents put in kerosene and diesel are to be able to trace back to where the fuel came from and when and where it was manufactured , ie so batches can be traced , but this is put in all diesel/kerosene derived fuels and is not necessarily put in to detect if its being used in vehicles without excise duty having been paid , its more of a safety issue to do with HAZCHEM side of things .. .

white diesel that is sold at garage forecourt pumps is mixed at the refineries with kerosene anyway , of the same as sold for heating oil .

you could almost say that ULS diesel is just diesel with more kerosene added !!.

kerosene is really an american derived word, in england we call it paraffin but both are of the same nature ..

dont you remember there were allways 2 grades of diesel, winter and summer but now there is only one THIN viscosity diesel .

diesel has gradually got thinner over the last few years .

of course thinner viscosity diesel means you use more , hence the mileage run per litre costs us more if the fuel is thinner viscosity .

the red and white diesel sold now have a strong smell of petrol , they didnt used to but how many people notice this .

now then, .we could all run petrol cars on alcohol instead of petrol , but they wont let us because firstly the engines would make 20% more horsepower , but secondly they would use twice as much fuel also .

in australia there is mainly only one price for diesel and everyone pays the same , but it is only £1.50 per gallon in our currency ..

the only people who are paying less for diesel fuel there are called PRIMARY PRODUCERS ,ie farmers and they are discounted because they produce the primary food sources and they have to use a LOT of fuel in order to do so , hence the govt help them out .

the 2 types of paraffin/kerosene sold here in the uk are zero and 25 octane rating .

a TIP for anyone with a tired old smokey diesel engine who has MOT coming soon , fill tank with kerosene 28sec , this will dramatically reduce the smoke output from a smokey diesel engine .

its an old "trick" used by many HGV fitters who regularly have to work on and test HGV vehicles and works for sure .

i think that some people using this newsgroup may well be working for customs and excise .

myself i dont run anything other than white diesel from the pumps and youre welcome to dip my tank anytime .

if someone wants information about what they can use as fuel and what it is called and sold as then its up to them to make up theyre mind as to what they want to do , all ive i done is supply the relevent information without making a technical issue out of it .

Reply to
M0bcg

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