Ford To Spend 87 1/2 Billion On SVT

Sorry folks, I'm on this war theme for my posts lately. Anyways, neat info on Ford's future plans. Snipped from Autoweek.com... with a few of my comments thrown in ---

LAS VEGAS - Ford Motor Co. will spend more money on performance vehicles as part of its effort to create a slew of products, the heart of Ford's revival plan.

"For the next three to four years, we will invest more in SVT than we've ever invested before," said Phil Martens, Ford's group vice president for product development, at the Specialty Equipment Market Association show here.

Martens would not say how much money is being spent on the performance vehicles, or how much the budget for such vehicles has increased.

Ford's competitors also are putting more money into developing high-performance versions of their cars and trucks to woo enthusiasts and cast a halo over the rest of their lineups. Within the last year, General Motors and the Chrysler group have created units to develop high-performance variants. Import-brand automakers also are touting high-performance vehicles and parts.

NoOp Comment: And about damn time I say!

Ford's Special Vehicle Team, or SVT, is the engineering unit that develops high-performance versions of Ford Division cars and trucks. It is one of three groups under the Ford Performance Group, created this year, to coordinate high-performance vehicles, parts and accessories for the automaker's various divisions.

SVT is putting the money toward next-generation high-performance versions of the redesigned F-150 pickup, which is badged the SVT Lightning, and the SVT Mustang Cobra, said John Coletti, head of SVT. The current SVT portfolio includes a high-performance Focus.

NoOp Comment: That next generation SVT Lightning is going to be one bad MF'er! Ford's current SVT stable includes the SVT Focus, Mustang SVT Cobra and the SVT Lightning. NoOp Comment: The new Ford GT isn't a SVT product?

The introduction of the new SVT Lightning is expected in one year. The new SVT Mustang Cobra will follow the introduction of the redesigned

2005 Mustang within a year of its fall 2004 debut.

Money also is being spent on SVT versions of other vehicles in the product pipeline, Coletti said. "You also have to do more with each new generation of a product to keep it ahead of the pack," he added.

NoOp Comment: That's right... survival of the strongest!

Coletti would not identify which products his group is working on, "but I like the idea of doing a sport wagon," he said. "It's a nice way to get more utility in a vehicle with carlike features."

NoOp Comment: Yeah, something to compete with Dodge's upcoming Hemi-powered wagon.

Ford's future product plans include the Futura and Five Hundred sedans and Freestyle sport wagon.

The 2006 Futura will be one of about 10 Ford Motor vehicles to be based on the platform used for the Mazda6. One reason that Ford chose the Mazda6 as the base for many of its future products is that the platform can be equipped with all-wheel drive, Martens said. "Over time, John's group can take advantage of that," he said.

Martens said he thinks awd will become more popular with U.S. consumers in the future as a performance feature - valued either for its ability to improve traction or driving performance.

Martens said he expects the technology to be available on the Futura as well as the 2005-model Five Hundred and Freestyle.

Ford crates up big-bang V-8s

LAS VEGAS -- Ford Motor Co. is ready to sell a 420-hp, 5.0-liter V-8 engine to performance enthusiasts. The price: $14,995.

NoOp Comment: Hey, Ford, how 'bout dropping that sweetheart of a motor between the Mach 1's frame rails...? Then pump up the Cobra's S/C'd quad-cammer to about an even 500...?

The 5.0-liter Cammer engine comes with the engine controller and wiring harness to make it easy to install in custom vehicles, said Dan Davis, director of Ford Racing Technologies. The engine uses the basic design of the automaker's 4.6-liter, overhead-cam V-8.

Ford highlighted the engine in a Ford Focus that had been converted to rear-wheel drive. Davis said that next year Ford plans to sell a rear-drive conversion kit for the Focus, with an expected cost of about $5,000.

NoOp Comment: How 'bout just offering a RWD or AWD V8-powered Focus?

Ford has developed two other variations of the Cammer engine. One replaces the fuel-injection system with four two-barrel Weber carburetors, and the other adds a supercharger to boost engine output to 600 hp. Those engines will be available next year, Davis said.

NoOp Comment: Cool!

Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD

Reply to
Patrick
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Damn right, but in ford lingo it probably means develop some more low-production nose bleed priced cars.

It may not be. But it's probably along the lines these execs are thinking.

If ford knew what to do they would utilize the falcon from down under.

Lame. Another f'ing front driver. I want to see a *REAL* car.

PS. I went to mazda's little autocross thing to show off the mazda 6. It's just what I would think the '89 MX6/probe would be today. It's good for what it is, but come on, this ain't gonna cut it when dodge and GM are going RWD.

I read this as ford wants the bragging rights to the engine but doesn't want to do the emissions certifications and/or have it cost against their CAFE number.

Exactly. Just factory build the beast. If the kit costs $5000 retail just make in the factory as $3000 option/variant or something. A RWD focus with any decent power would be in a market of it's own in this country. (USA)

Why on earth would somebody want carburators in this day and age? Only reason I could see the webbers being desirable is for a street rod where the look would better suited for the car.

Reply to
Brent P

I would not at all be surprised that the carb option is intended for some kind of specific racing classes.

Dana

Reply to
Dana Myers

I'm against it... keep SVT as a "skunkworks", build maybe 4 performance engine platforms and farm the rest out.

Work on building up the quality instead.

Patrick opined in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

Reply to
Backyard Mechanic

What does that mean? A 5 liter that uses the basic design of the 4.6?

Does that mean I could drop this into my 2002 GT?

John

Reply to
John Shepardson

I would think it means it IS basically a 4.6 with either more bore and/or more stroke to up the displacement to 5.0. Probably has different head, intake, etc too. I would also guess you could drop it into a 2002 gt. If I had money to burn I'd get a good used V-10 and drop it in to a late model GT.

----------------- Jim '88 LX 5.0 (now in car heaven) '89 LX 5.0 vert '99 GT 35th Anniversery Edition - Silver Mods to date - Relocated trunk release to drivers side, shortened throttle cable.

Reply to
AZGuy

that sounds god, but it would disrupt the (already) uneven weight ditribution even more... Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying

Reply to
Rein

The only "nose bleed" priced car Ford is currently building is the new Ford GT. And it totally kicks Ferrari's ass for less money so you can't complain about that one. For the performance the terminator Cobra delivers you can't argue about that one either. The Lightning pickup...? Nope, I don't think so. The new Mach one is right where it should be. The Mustang GT... it's priced right too. And the SVT Focus is right in there also.

Which ones are you talking about? Because the only ones I can think of are the '95 and 2000 R model Mustangs. Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD

Reply to
Patrick

Wooptie do. That sort of thing might have been something when I was in HS and cared about such brand stuff. Ford could make a damn good sports car on the same concept for vette territory price wise I am sure. But no, it's the old build a few and have people fight over em. At some point I realized that ford or any other make could build the fastest, best, car, but not having the money or sometimes not be willing to part with it in a bidding war to fight over the handful built made it meaningless.

And dealers seem to think that anything with an SVT badge means that over-sticker is perfectly acceptable. So people fight over the couple or three each special SVT dealer is allowed...

That aside, what does ford give us in the reasonable price range where we don't have to fight over the few they build? The GT, maybe the mach 1? Great. a chasis pushing 30. Sure alot has been squeezed out of it, but in the last couple decades RWD development (other than a few mustang tweaks) for the US market has been dead. It's time ford put something better out. The SN95 variant of the fox platform itself now a decade old.

Ford is gonna have to put up something, a real production car, not some 'suck-em-in-the-showroom-for-something-else' car, not some car for highschool kids to argue with their GM fan classmates while holding an issue of road & track car, but a real production car, not a limited special. A car that they *BUILD* as may as they can *SELL*.

I want a car I can *DRIVE* not one to be shrink-wrapped in a wearhouse because ford only built five of em.

You're begining to figure it out. It's ford's standard, build a few and say look what we can build.... wooptie do, I just can't get excited about it any more.

I'll may buy another new car in '05 or '06. I might consider a cobra if I don't have to put up with dealers who think their shit doesn't stink nor drive all over the area just to find one to test drive. When I bought my GT I had to look all over the place just to find an MT to test drive. then, I wasn't allowed to actually drive it over 30mph. Cobra test drives weren't even allowed at the couple of dealers that had em. (I wouldn't think any of this has changed since '96, and if it has, I expect it only to last as long as this economic phase)

Reply to
Brent P

Yes, you pretty much can. Here's a more detailed article that discusses the crate motor:

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. Sean Hyland Motorsports offers several alternatives as well, including a

5.2L 4V stroker motor.

Dan

2003 Cobra convertible with some stuff on it.
Reply to
Dan Talso

Well some of those high school kids grow up to be high rollers. And the new GT will give them a Ford they can aspire to instead of just Ferraris and Porshes. I think that means something and will pay Ford dividends in the future.

And I give Ford credit for not cheaping out and doing it right. They targeted Ferrari's Modena and they beat its little ass. The shame would have been to build a high-buck car and then have it still miss the mark. Ford in my opinion hit a home run with the GT.

I agree with you here. Ford does need a car that competes with the Vette and Viper. But at least the new GT shows Ford has a enthusiast's heart beat (no pun intended). Maybe if Ford can get back on their feet financially, they'll some day build a lower-priced "true" sports car. Personally, I think the T-bird should have been that car. The new 'Bird should have weighed in at around 3,200 pounds and packed some REAL thunder.

Not after the Jack Nasser period. Ford needed to rebuild some company enthusiasm and pride. I think the new GT wil help a lot in that area.

The problem isn't Ford, it's GM and Chrysler's fault for not building anything to compete with the Mustang.

Besides, I'm hearing that you can currently get some very good deals on the new Cobras.

I agree, but it's changing, fast. Both GM and Chrysler have a slew of RWD cars debuting in the next few years. Better times are ahead!

Enter the 2005 Mustang.

Mustang GT, Mach 1, Cobra, Lightning, Focus SVT. Sure, most are "limited production", but you can find and buy them if you want them. And, again, SVT will have to get more competitive in the future. There'll just be too many other performance options (GM and Chrysler's upcoming RWD cars, Evo, WRX, WRX/STi and Skyline) in the near future.

I never expected the new GT to be affordable or obtainable, did you? What I do expect is for the new GT to have some "trickle-down" effect on the rest of the company. And I think it will. At the very least it shows Ford has some serious enthusiasts on its staff... and that makes me feel good. We could have a 80's-90's GM staff running the show.

Please, Ford is the only one doing anything. Chrysler has the $80G Viper and then all the way down to a FWD SRT-4 (Neon). GM has the Vette, but couldn't build a pony car anyone wanted to buy. The Camarobirds had a great drive train and the cars put up fabulous numbers, but what a shit body. I really wanted to like them, but after every test drive I thought wait until they put this drivetrain into something else.

I'm feeling yah. But you gotta play hard ball with 'em. Say hey, here's my cash and I want to buy. But if you won't deal with me or you jerk me around I'll look elsewhere. Then do it. But I think by

2005/2006 I think the influx of new competition will get the Ford SVT dealers wheeling and dealing.

Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD

Reply to
Patrick

Trunk; bricks.

----------------- Jim '88 LX 5.0 (now in car heaven) '89 LX 5.0 vert '99 GT 35th Anniversery Edition - Silver Mods to date - Relocated trunk release to drivers side, shortened throttle cable.

Reply to
AZGuy

If that makes you feel good.... Ford's not going to make after a year or so you know.

At least if I were to really want to, I could buy a used ferrari for considerably less than they went for new. But the few ford GT's made will end up in bubble wrap as investments. I just realize that these cars are meaningless to me. I stand a better chance of being able to buy a used aston martin because people actually drive those than a ford GT. I might have to wait 15 years, but with aston building what they can sell and coming out with new models, a vantage a few years old isn't as much as a new one.

It should have been what the original Tbird was, a car to knock the vette on it's ass.

What will rebuild it for me is to put a good line up of RWD cars on the market.

1) I could put far less money into my '97 GT to get what I would be seeking from a new cobra. 2) I don't much like the 'terminator' styling.

Which is why ford better get off it's ass or I'll be shoping elsewhere when the time comes.

We'll see. But it could be another new tbird.

And want to compete with other people that want them for some above sticker price. Ford loses because I am not playing that game. (current economy specials not withstanding, as I am speaking in general not special case)

If the past is any indication it will be look what we made 100 of, it's better than what the competition makes.

I am not just refering to that car.

Trickle down. Yeah, sure whatever. about as much trickledown as aston martins get into mustangs. At current mustang design cycles we might see something from the ford GT in 2040.

That paragraph sounds like the old brand-wars debates I long ago grew tired of. I cannot get excited about ford's build a few product straegy. I simply don't want to pay an inflated price just so I can have the ford. I'll get a BMW or something else, new or used that meets the criteria without having to compete with other buyers.

And if they don't change their ways I am looking elsewhere. It's not like GM competition made them deal. When production is so limited they can afford to pass up buyers that don't like playing their game. Each dealer will still be able to sell the few they are alotted to people who will.

Reply to
Brent P

Maybe Ford is keeping their expectations low in case it doesn't sell as well as hoped. But I'd bet if it sells well enough, the new GT will stick around. Wouldn't make sense to cancel something that's turning a profit.

Used being cheaper than new is true to most everything.

I'm thinking that someone with enough bucks to buy a new GT probably isn't interested in something used.

Stupid people do that with Ferraris and high-buck Porshes too. Shoot, I'll bet you'll see more Ford GTs racing that some of these other "bubble wrap cars."

I realize it too, but I still give Ford credit for building 'em. And even more credit for doing it right.

Probably not. And I'll bet a used GT will be cheaper too. However, if it appreciates in value, that would be all the more reason for wanting to buy one.

Yep, exactly. I really hope Ford trys again with a two-seat T-bird, only next time make it perform better than a Vette.

That's true of all the American manufacturers. They've seen the err of their ways and are busy rectifying the problem. However, give Ford credit. They probably have one of, if not the biggest, line of performances vehicles of any mass-market automaker.

And someone could spend less with an old 5-oh Mustang and get more than you could ever get from your '97 GT. Don't throw in the old 'buy a used car and hop it for cheaper than a new car' arguement. Besides, and new Cobra can go places (deep into the 10's) your GT could ever go without completely rebuilding it from scratch.

To each his own. But personally, I think it's the best looking Cobra Mustang ever.

That's good, you should. Because before I buy, I shop everywhere. I look at everything then make my choice.

Yes, it could, but let's hope it isn't. We both agree the market needs more low-cost RWD performance cars, not less.

Then buy them used. That's what I did, and I saved about $7Gs on my '93 Cobra.

There's a few more than just a few hundred new Cobras, Lightings, Mach

1s, Bullits, and GTs. And if thousands aren't enough, scan the used car ads. You'll find many more thousand.

Which ones are you talking about then?

"Trinkle down" as in enthusiasm, not nessessarily parts. However, Ford has said that the GT's engine will be used in another application. SVT said something to the effect, 'you didn't think we designed this engine (blown intercooled 5.4 liter) for just the GT, did you?' I'm thinking it'll end up in a Lightning. But who knows... the GT's engine would be a nice progression up from the Cobra's current 400-horsepower DOHC 4.6.

I am not brand loyal. (I also have a Honda in the garage.) I just call it as I see it. The SRT-4 is a neat little car, but Chrysler has a huge hole to fill between it and the Viper. GM has the Vette, and now the new GTO, but nothing decent for less than $30Gs. Ford has something from the high teens all the way up to $35Gs. The market you seem most interested in.

I would anyways. Buying used is the best deal going.

Exactly, but blame GM and Chrysler though... they're the ones not building pony cars...

Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD

Reply to
Patrick

It's because of some new regs coming into effect. And making a profit isn't enough. It has to make *enough* profit.

Please stick around for sentance number two, they go together.

No, because that's regular production. There will always be next year's ferraris. When will the next ford GT come around? 30 years? That's the big difference.

In years past I would have. But their recent trend makes me less excited each time they present something.

There are new aston martins made every year. There will be no more Ford GTs for probably 30 years after the run ends. This really skews the supply and demand, the value of the car. Aston had a long period of nothing of interest so it's hard to use it as an example, so lets use porsche 911s instead. One can pick up something like a late 80's

911 for the kind of money most people can afford for a car. It's just an old exotic instead of a new car. But that doesn't happen for a car that just blips on and off the scene that's desirable like the ford GT. Because there is no new model to water down the demand.

About equal to the others IMO. CAFE is really what is standing in the way though, not just automaker error.

Slow down and read what I wrote, not what you want me to have written and what you replied to. Notice the key phrase "what I would be seeking from a new cobra". What I would be seeking is basically the next step up refined chasis of the '03 cobra. I can achieve that with aftermarket parts for my '97.

And I forgot 3) I have other uses for my money right now.

For the used car adventure I'd just step up to BMWs and porsches.

Stop including the non-svt cars. They aren't anything particularly more than marketing excerises by making some slight tweaks to a mustang GT. As far as the SVT cars, they don't make them to demand, they make them to a set figure. And saying buy used, is avoiding the valid complaint I am making with regards to that scheme. I am not playing fords game, nor am I going to go through the hoops of the used car game to avoid it. I'll just avoid ford. If I am going to buy used, I'll buy something that costs alot more than a mustang new to make it worth my time.

Practically every short run special of the last decade or more.

end up in a lightning. It's a friggin truck. It's a truck, and as a truck it will never be good enough in the other half of performance that isn't straight line acceleration unless it ceases to be a truck.

I've been through it all before, the rumors of this and that, and what not. blah. I believe it when I see it now. The marketing buzz just doesn't work on me anymore.

Ford was the same way when I could go down the street to the chevy dealer and buy a camarobird. They've been this way for probably a decade now, if not longer.

Reply to
Brent P

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Patrick) wrote

A sport wagon won't sell. Not enough sex appeal for the mullet heads, too much for the soccer moms.

I thought the Chrysler Pacifica was purty cool until I saw that it weighs 5700 pounds (the AWD verson)!!! That's sick. What ever happened to modern weight-saving composite materials? A 1967 Chrysler Town and Country 9-passenger wagon with a 440-4v weighs not much more than 4,000 pounds; 4,500 lbs tops. A tall, 5700 pound vehicle is just plain no fun to drive, no matter how much power, brakes, and springs you put in it. The hemi V8 will just make it that much heavier.

My guess is it's cammed such that it can't pass emissions. There's only so far you can go with 302 naturally aspirated cubic inches. 420 hp (1.39 hp/ci) would require so much valve overlap that it would be uncertifiable. Check the following emissions legal V8's (from a November '02 post, so some are out of date), ranked according to hp/ci, and see what I mean:

1.53 Jaguar XKR---390 hp---399 lb-ft---255 ci---4-valve dohc (blown) 1.52 Maserati GT--390 hp---333 lb-ft---256 ci---4-valve dohc 1.49 Car Crft SBC-523 hp---454 lb-ft---350 ci---2-valve pushrod 1.46 Ferrari 360--400 hp---276 lb-ft---274 ci---5-valve dohc 1.41 Audi S8------360 hp---317 lb-ft---255 ci---5-valve dohc 1.39 SVT Cobra----390 hp---390 lb-ft---281 ci---4-valve dohc (blown) 1.31 BMW M5-------394 hp---368 lb-ft---301 ci---4-valve dohc 1.24 Infiniti Q45-340 hp---333 lb-ft---274 ci---4-valve dohc 1.22 Audi A8------310 hp---302 lb-ft---255 ci---5-valve dohc 1.18 Jaguar XJ----290 hp---290 lb-ft---245 ci---4-valve dohc 1.17 Corvette LS6-405 hp---400 lb-ft---346 ci---2-valve pushrod 1.15 Lightning----380 hp---450 lb-ft---330 ci---2-valve sohc (blown)

As you can see, the naturually aspirated emissions legal motors sporting hp/ci numbers around the 1.40 level belong to the very high-priced spreads.

(Emissions legal DOES NOT include the Car Craft SBC, included in my list as an example of what a shade tree mechanic with $5,500 in off-the-shelf aftermarket parts can do with a pushrod V8 that debuted in 1954.)

This is certainly a step in the right direction. Chevy has been offering its Ram Jet 502 Rat and also a 350 ci Mouse version for a couple years now, and we Ford fans have had to sit around and pull our peters waiting for FRPP to respond in kind. The 502 Ram Jet puts out

510 hp at 5500 RPM (NINETY HP MORE THAN THIS MOD MOTOR 302), and 550 ft-lbs at 4500 RPM. The ECU is mounted in the lifter valley, so the entire package is a simple one-wire hookup. The Ram Jet can be had at a Chevy dealer near you, any day of the week, for for less than $9000

-- or one-half the price of this mod 302. A pushrod big block actually requires less underhood space than a dohc mod motor, and they weigh about the same. (The Ford GT's 5.4, with clutch, weighs 312 kg, which equals 693 pounds! Source:

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) Again, as with the gross avoir-du-pois of the Pacifica, this is progress? The Chevy Rat debuted in a passenger car (the '65 Vette) in

1964. So 40 years later Ford puts out a larger, equally heavy, far more complex powerplant making 90 hp LESS than an EFI Rat costing HALF as much?

What FRPP needs to do is offer a 514 ci 385-series and a 347 ci Challenger, and/or a 408 ci Windsor, following the Ram Jet recipe of integral ECU and one-wire hookup AND a reasonable price. Now THAT would be something to get excited about.

Now that's just plain silly. If you're going carbed, you use a Holley or a Road Demon. I doubt if there are 100 guys left in the USA who know how to tune a four Weber setup. If it's just for looks -- and it IS -- hasn't Ford heard of the aftermarket vendors who convert Webers to EFI? Maybe I should start forwarding my Car Crafts, Hot Rods, and Popular Hot Roddings to FRPP after I'm done with them.

Yeah, adds a supercharger and no doubt $5000 to the MSRP. 600 hp out of a 302 ci is wound up pretty tight. A $20,000 hand grenade sounds kinda scary to me.

Yrs, 180 TS 28

Reply to
180 Out

One needs to separate the actual cost from the price. My guess is the chevy has a lower price because chevy fans have alot of options so GM has make it attractive. Ford is making it just to make it say look what we offer and sell only to purists who will pay the premium. It's a wrong headed approach that will see more street rods fords with chevy engines in 'em.

They won't. And I don't expect them to. I don't like chevys for many reasons, but I have admit, when it comes to making things for hod-roders and the like chevy seems to have it's act together. Ford doesn't seem to care cept to throw a bone from the table now and then.

Someone in agreement with me, it can only be for looks. With your info it only appears sillier on ford's part.

Reply to
Brent P

Lots of us aging boomers would like an american high performance 4 door sedan. Please no ground effects/wings/graphics.

Why not turn the SVT team loose on the Crown Vic. Unlikely since purchasing the police package from ford is not easy.

I would be very happy with 260-280 HP, decent seats, less plastic and a tuned suspension. Probably could bring it in for the price of a mid range 3 series BMW. I know there is the Maurader but that is to "high profile". I believe there is an untapped market for "sleepers" like the Taurus SVT.

Reply to
hnelson

Actually I think ford already makes what you want:

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Reply to
Brent P

Too bad you can only get it in Australia!!

Scott W. '66 ?HCS?

Reply to
Scott Williams

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