AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-40 European Engine Oil

"AMSOIL Dave" wrote

Piss off, Dave. We're still not buying.

Does it actually meet the European Manufacturer's specs, or is it just recommended (by Amsoil and/or Amsoil Dealers) for vehicles that have those specs? Amsoil is famous for recommending oils for applications even though the "recommended" oils don't actually meet the vehicle manufacturers stated requirements. This isn't exactly lying, but it sure is misleading. I just checked the Amsoil Corporate Website for this oil

As I expected, Amsoil never actually claims that this oil meets any of the specs listed. They just say it is recommended for use in vehicles that require any of the listed specifications. I also noted that this oil is NOT API certified. This is exactly the sort of misleading BS that creates the impression that Amsoil is a scam operation. If it meets the manufacturer's requirements, Amsoil would say that it does. Since they don't say it actually meets the vehicle manufacturer's requirements, I assume it does not meet those requirements. So my advice is - BUYERS BEWARE. Ed

Product Description AMSOIL European Car Formula Synthetic 5W-40 Motor Oil (AFL) is specially formulated for the lubrication needs of modern European gasoline and diesel cars and light trucks. Formulated with advanced AMSOIL synthetic base stocks, premium additives and a 5W-40 viscosity rating, AMSOIL AFL is the preferred oil for virtually all European automobiles, especially turbo charged models. It is the only oil in North America to be recommended for the latest specifications of all three major European automakers - Volkswagen (Audi), BMW and Mercedes- Benz and the latest North American API specifications. AMSOIL AFL is highly versatile for multiple applications.

AMSOIL, the leader in automotive synthetic lubrication, produced the world's first API qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972. Trust the extensive experience of AMSOIL "The First in Synthetics®" to do the best job protecting your engine.

Maximum Engine Protection AMSOIL Synthetic European Car Formula contains high quality anti-wear additives and surpasses the tough ACEA oil specifications for high temperature/high shear viscosity. It provides outstanding protection in high RPM, hot running engines and delivers dependable long-term performance for the extended drain intervals set by European automakers.

Superior Engine Cleanliness The excellent oxidation stability, heat resistance and detergency properties of AMSOIL Synthetic European Car Formula keep engines clean. It is specially designed to prevent sludge and varnish deposits for reduced oil consumption, extended engine life and maximum overall performance.

Minimizes Exhaust Emissions AMSOIL European Car Formula is designed for newer vehicle emission control systems. It meets current industry and vehicle manufacturer requirements for long life protection of gasoline vehicle catalytic converters and diesel particulate filters (DPF).

All Season Performance The broad 5W-40 viscosity rating, low volatility (burn-off) and wax free nature of AMSOIL Synthetic European Car Formula make it excellent for hot and cold temperatures. Engine wear is reduced, oil thickening is controlled and vehicles start easier in cold temperatures.

APPLICATION AMSOIL Synthetic European Car Formula is formulated to surpass the most demanding European specifications. It is recommended for European and North American gasoline or diesel vehicles requiring any of the following worldwide specifications:

API SM/CF ACEA C3-04 ACEA A3/B3-04 ACEA A3/B4-04 BMW LL-04 Mercedes Benz 229.31, 229.51 Porsche Saab Volvo Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00, 505.01 DaimlerChrysler MS-10725 Service Life Recommended for the extended drain intervals established by the vehicle manufacturer or extend based on oil analysis. Change oil filter at time of oil change.

Mixing AMSOIL AMSOIL AFL is compatible with conventional and synthetic motor oils. Mixing AMSOIL motor oils with other oils, however, will shorten the life expectancy and reduce the performance benefits. AMSOIL does not support extended drain intervals where oils have been mixed. Aftermarket oil additives are not recommended for use with AMSOIL motor oils.

Health & Safety This product is not expected to cause health concerns when used for the intended application and according to the recommendations in the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). An MSDS is available upon request at 715-392-7101 or on the AMSOIL Website. Keep Out of Reach of Children. Don't pollute. Return used oil to collection centers.

TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES European Car Formula Synthetic 5W-40 Motor Oil (updated as of 12/05) AFL

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) - 13.7

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) - 80.8

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) - 174 Viscosity CCS, cP @ °C (ASTM D-5293) - 5204 (-30) Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92) - 230 (446) Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92) - 246 (474) Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97) - 42 (-44) Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800) - 8.9 Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172B @ 40 kg, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 1 hr), Scar, mm - 0.44 Total Base Number - 8.0 HTHS (cP) (ASTM D-4683) - 3.7

LOL!

Ya right, the junk is not certified as others in this thread have noted and if you use it it will void the engine warranty.

Sure spamsoil says when you blow your engine and are told no warranty because you used snake oil, send it to them and if they decide it was their oil that blew the engine they will replace it. SURE they will...

The only idiots recommending spamsoil are the sales droids.

Had a friend once who got suckered into spamsoil. he couldn't give the junk away, literally because he had too many smart friends. He gave me a case and I trashed it into the recycle bin for him.

I sure wouldn't use snake oil in my CJ7, I plan on keeping it for another 10 or 20 years.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

I just read an article in Lubes and Greases Magazine about getting a new oil certified. It can cost a quarter million for a new formulation. So I imagine that as long as the assoiler can sell there uncertified oil they will not invest the money in the tests that would show it actually meets specs. In fact, since they don't test it to spec it's entire possible they put in more additives then your catalytic converter can digest but what do they care, they don't warranty that and I doubt the automakers who wind up footing the bill under the emissions warranty are going to go to the trouble of showing the uncertified oil was the cause of emission control system failures.

6-7 years ago I was dating a lady whose son had been ordering and installing Amsoil in her little car. They were running the car 12-15000 between changes. I was there and "tried" to change the oil. What a mess! The oil looked like Jello chocolate pudding coming out of the drain hole.

I would never use that s*it, and wouldnt run ANY oil so long.

By the way, picked up our new Avalon yesterday. First oil change is at

2500 miles. Thereafter at 5000 mile intervals, or less.

Warranties... "Fortunately, the law does not allow manufacturers to "void your warranty" simply because of the brand of oil you use, the specifications it meets or the miles you drive between oil changes. To be specific, they cannot deny fixing your broken radio, faulty valve or cracked piston because you used an AMSOIL non-API licensed motor oil, or because you've gone more than 3000 miles since your last oil change. Denial of warranty coverage must be specifically due to an oil related failure. Courts of law will rule against any manufacturer or dealership that tries these warranty shenanigans."

Instead of trusting the Amsoil sales people, you would do well to read what the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act really says. See

. Do you honestly think that a manufacturer wouldn't try to void the warranty on your engine if they determined you were using an unapproved oil or not maintaining the vehicle per the maintenance schedule? And if they tried to void your warranty, how likely would it be that you would be able to provide better experts than they could and win a court case? It is true that they can't void the warranty on your radio because you used a lubricant that doesn't meet the manufacturer's specifications. The same is not true for the failure of internal engine parts.

Ed

I think you are mistaken. They cannot force you to use MOTORCRAFT brand or to buy your oil from them, or to come to them to have it changed, but they can insist that you use an oil that meets their specifications if you want warranty coverage. Otherwise you could fill your crankcase with Vaseline and when the engine seized demand they replace it under warranty. Clearly they would not.

See

Must reply with the following which are not my words but from the corporate site for public information.

"Only if the oil is determined to be the direct cause of the engine problem can a manufacturer or dealership deny warranty coverage for that specific problem. In this situation the AMSOIL warranty would apply, and the AMSOIL Technical Services Department would assist you in processing your claim and in getting the vehicle repaired. That's our pledge to you. AMSOIL INC. sells millions of gallons of oil per year and warranty claims are a rare occurrence. If you ever have a warranty problem with an automobile manufacturer or dealership, AMSOIL will assist you by analyzing the problem and providing data supporting the fact that repairs should be made under the vehicle manufacturer's warranty. If this does not resolve the problem, AMSOIL will submit a claim with our insurance company and request that an adjuster have the vehicle repaired and pursue legal settlement later if necessary."

Checker/Shuck's/Kragen currently offers Valvoline SynPower full synthetic for only 99 cents a quart with newspaper coupon and $2.50/ qt. rebate (limit 6 qts.).

Contradicts your earlier statement.

Good point, the cheap stuff is 1000% better than that snake oil Spamsoil is trying to flog to suckers. It won't void your engine warranty.

One must wonder just 'how' a company got the cheap stuff to pass the standards seeing as Spamsoil says it's too hard or expensive to do.

Mike

A couple of years ago, somebody in this forum posted details about the costs of API certification, and it wasn't anything close to the $250,000 mentioned by Ashton Crusher or even 1% as much.

99 cents/qt. for this Valvoline synthetic is outragously expsensive compare to the 6 cents/qt. I paid for Pennzoil synthetic 1-2 years ago (thanks, FatWallet.com).

And I'll repeat - Go read the actual law and don't just blindly trust Amsoil's interpertation.

Internal engine failures during the warranty period are extermely rare. In many cases the dealers won't even bother to ask what oil you used or how often it was changed. It is also very unlikley they would bother to have the oil analysed. So most people would never have a problem getting a failed engine repaired under warranty. However, the possibility exists that if you have an oil related engine failure, and for whatever reason, the dealer/manufacturer determines you did not change the oil at the proper intervals and/or used oils that do not meet the stated requirments, they could deny warranty coverage. If you don't think this is a possibility, read up on the Toyota sludge problems. Toyota originally denied warranty coverage to significant numbers of Customers becasue they could not produce satisfactory documents that proved they changed the oil at the proper intervals. In the end Toyota caved in and started covering the engines, but only under the treat of multiple class action law suits and lots of negative press. If there had only been one or two people complaining, I doubt Toyota would have given in.

Why would any rational person risk voiding the warranty by using non- API certified Amsoil oil and extended change intervals, at least during the warranty period? I have never seen any credible evidence that Amsoil will extend the life of an engine beyond what can be achieved by regularly changing good quality API certified conventional oil of the latest grade. In my opinion risking your auto warranty by using a non-API certified oil and going to extended oil change intervals is a foolish decision. Even after the warranty period, I would not recommend going to extended drain intervals or using a non- API oil. But after the warranty period is over, it solely at your own risk.

Ed

Our new Toyota Avalon is specified to use 5W-30 oil, ILSAC multigrade type (bears the ILSAC API logo). They say you can use 10W-30 if you cant find the other, but that you should replace it at the next change.

If Amsoil doesnt bear this logo, it would not be wise to use it.

They say nothing about synthetic versus dino.

The first change is supposed to come at about 2500-2750 miles. After that, they say 5000 miles is recommended, but in no case longer intervals than 6 months.

There is some conflict between what you can find written in odd places about the maintenance schedule and what the dealership representatives tell you. We keep a log book, and err on the side of conservativism.

Just curious, have many have ever used AMSOIL? I have a 2000 Dodge Intrepid with over 125,000 miles and have used AMSOIL in it since the first oil change and have only changed the 11 times. Engine doesn't burn any oil and is clean (no sludge laying about up on the cylinder heads). With all my new vehicles, I have never once let the dealer change my oil and never kept records.

I have 6 cars in my family that all have AMSOIL in them. This includes a 1964 Chrysler 300K with a built up 413 pushing 400 hp.

I shudder when I read people trust their cars to "quick lube" businesses or go to the dealer for oil changes. These places are using the cheapest oil they can find so their profits are up. I do all my own maintenance on my vehicles short of warranty work, transmissions or exhausts. I feel confident that AMSOIL products.

I used it in the early 80's on my '77 Torino. Pretty pricey at $6/quart back then when dino was, what, 39 cents? Liked it okay, but besides the price, the stuff was just too hard to get.

One would think that you'd be in a better position to know how many people have ever used Amsoil than anyone else here.

Which engine?

I can say the same thing about my 98 Intrepid that AFAIK has never seen so much as an Amsoil label, much less had it used in it.

This is significant because?

Again, significant how?

I'm lactose intolerant, I shudder when I see milk.

Having worked at a number of different dealerships of various brands, that statement is flat out speculation on your part.

Feeling confident is not the same as having an API, ILLSAC, ACEA, GM, Ford, Chrysler, VW, Mercedes Benz or BMW "approval."

If by cheapest you mean the least expensive oil that meets the specifications, sure. Every business does. Do you think the main Scamsoil factory is doing any different for whatever product they want to buy based on whatever specification they specify?

I do