Bulk vs. Bottled oil at places like Jiffy Lube

The "How it's made" series that runs on the various Discovery Networks channels has episodes showing production of the Fram air and oil filters. The

site seems to have better listings than the Discovery site. The oil filter episode looks like it's coming up in the rotation next weekend.

It's not recently, it was years ago they got bought out by someone, I forget who. But my comments stem from personal experience, their anti-drainback valves simply don't work, at least on a slant six MoPar application. I've also heard of them blowing apart at the seams on engines who develop higher-than-normal (>100 PSI) oil pressure on a cold start, like VWs, but that part is anecdotal.

nate

I'll have to try to catch that!

nate

If they're such good quality, they should have an ADBV that works. They don't. You can't convince me that Fram is good quality unless they've changed significantly in the last ten years or so, because my own experiences tell me that they are inferior to every other name brand filter on the market.

nate

Jeff wrote:

In fact, Purolator is one of the better brands and if someone forgets to check for gaskets that stick to the filter mount when changing... Shame on 'em for not checking since this is a common occurance regardless of filter mfg..

JT

(Who feels extra grumpy today!)

Nate Nagel wrote:

Don't blame the filter for operator error! ANY filter can leave a gasket behind, that's why you should check and clean the gasket surface on the engine's oil filter mounting flange every time. Purolator and Wix are probably the best filters on the market, overall.

That is true.. Can happen with the best of them.. I totally agree with Nate about the fram filters on some six cyl engines. They are a *proven* disaster waiting to happen. I even tried one myself to see.. I had to yank it within one day. Trust me, I don't yank new filters, unless I have a good reason.. :/ Now, I can see some engines not having a problem with fram filters. Most of the problems with frams on six bangers are from the physical position of the filter, and the fast drain it will do if the valve is a bad design. But many engines don't mount the filters in that position, and thus probably would not have the problem. But...Being I know fram skimps on their anti-drainback valves, I don't really trust them as far as the other parts of the filter. So I don't use them at all, just to be on the safe side. Purolator in general makes very high quality filters. At least I know they have good anti drain valves. The motorcraft FL1A that I use on the ford trucks and have zero problems with may well use a purolator design, and I've heard some are actually made by purolator. Supposably WIX filters are pretty good, although I've never tried one. Those are sold by NAPA, etc.. Myself, I'm not overally picky about filters.. Or at least I don't buy the high $$$$ versions that offer fine filtration, etc.. I'm of the opinion that too good a filter is not good either.. They clog faster in general, and if the bypass has to kick in.... :( No bueno.. As far as the seals sticking, it can happen to just about any of them if the seal gets stuck good enough.. Or at least for the ones that use a "flat" seal surface. The ones with a sunk "O-ring" type of seal tend to stick less. But... You should still double check every time, or verify that the old one is still on the old filter when you yank it. Myself, I use a dab of oil off the old seal to lube the new seal. So if I reach over to grab a touch of oil, and the seal ain't there, I know it's still on the engine. I've had it happen maybe 2-3 times in a few hundred oil changes. I once dumped a couple of quarts on a service bay floor when this happened at a place I worked at years ago. Needless to say, I always made sure the seal didn't stick after that.. Over the years, I've changed the oil in hundreds of vehicles starting with helping my grandfather do it at his Texaco station when I was a kid, and then through 2-3 stations I worked at when younger. At one local Texaco, I did several a day, every day.. Also all my cars through the years.. I've never had anyone else change the oil on any of my cars since I started driving. So I do know a little bit about changing oil and filters regardless of "local" opinion to the contrary.. One tip... Never , ever change the oil and filter on a vehicle and not look for leaks under the car when through, and cranked up.. I've heard stories of JL's not doing that and having the car come right back with a dry engine.. I'd strangle anyone that did that to one of my cars. Maybe that why I always do it myself. I'm just trying to save the life of some poor JL dude or dudette.. lol.. MK

I've been buying the Castrol 5 quart for a long time but I was in K- Mart yesterday and I noticed all the Castrol jugs in there were 4 quart, does Castrol make both a 4 quart and a 5 quart jug or did they "downsize" the jug to make more money?

I do trust you. My local parts store once had a display with cut-away Fram and Wix filters side by side. The Wix must have had five times the surface area of filter paper, if not ten.

But I'm curious. . . You decided to yank the filter based on some observable symptom? I was it doing?

The real question is whether they say the bulk oil is the same oil as in the bottles. If they say it's the same oil then I would believe them. I would not expect that Jiffy Lube or other large chain stores would be playing bait and switch games with motor oil.

Expect that they will do what you asked them to do, which is change the oil and filter. Just realize that they won't provide that set of expert eyes to spot potential troubles in other areas.

And likely to involve a half-day wait or longer if you can get into the schedule.

I can't speak for the previous poster, but in my case I noticed on two different 60's vintage A-bodies with the 225 slant six that the oil light would stay on for what I thought was an excessive period of time after startup - five seconds or so, accompanied by lifter rattling noises. Changing the filter to a Wix filter reduced that to about a second or so on both cars.

nate

I had a 'bad' lifter rattle on start up in my straight 6 after an oil change at the end of a hard 3000 mile run and thought I had engine damage until I remembered I bought the 'on sale' filter that was a Fram.

Changed it and all the noise went away..

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

You mean, like how Sears would sit cars out back, never touch them, then charge customers at the end of the day?

Yeah, those big chain stores. They'd never f*ck with you. No sir.

I take mine to the dealer and never wait any longer than having Iffy Lube do it.

And I get to watch while my regular mechanic does the work as we chat.

Taking the car to the dealer while on the road isn't any more ridiculous than taking it to the dealer at home, and that's not necessarily ridiculous at all.

At least around here, as of a couple years ago (last time I checked) if you went to your local Sears for an oil change, there was actually a Jiffy Lube franchise within the Sears Auto Center. don't know if that's changed or not.

Only times I have knowingly taken my car to a Sears Auto Center was one time where I needed an alignment Right Away (they did an OK job) and another time when I was on the road and needed an alternator Right Away (also did an OK job, but was silly expensive and their supplier sent them the wrong alternator first time around, making me lose about a day of travel)

nate

I like Valvolene motor oil.(I am not saying Valvolene is any better than other well known brand names of quality oil) I always buy the one quart containers of oil when I get ready to change motor oil (and oil filter) plus two extra quarts of oil which I keep in my van just in case I might need them later on.Van or lawn mower, whatever. cuhulin

Can't tell you a thing about Sears, sorry. Bit it does sound like an old story that's been repeated a lot. But I have seen a small indpendent shop really screw up something as simple as reinstalling a drain plug, so there are f...ups working everywhere. Fortunately they are in the minority.

I used to find that diesel fuel was much cheaper than buying engine oil. That car used it up quite fast so it was the best way to keep the oil pressure guage OK. Most petrol station attendants didn't even blink when I said "$25 on pump 3 and 62c on number 8".