Lock lube, snake oil?

I was talking to an aftermarket vehicle lock supplier earlier and mentioned the use of graphite powder on said vehicle lock (before it failed) and he suggested it was a bad thing (not just not the best thing), recommending their own brand aerosol 'lube'. Now, he could have been telling the truth or it could have been just snake oil (not literally of course ... but who knows!). ;-)

The chances are the lock was just worn out anyway, even before we got to it but that got me wondering if graphite power lube had been outmoded these days or maybe was just not suitable for this (pretty standard pin) type lock used on a van?

So I thought I'd ask the panel ... so do we all actually use graphite power or other 'dry' lube for all our locks (within reason etc) or is it really not suitable for some (and I'm still talking everyday car / house / padlock locks here).

Googling and Youtube seem to have the std range of contradictions so I wondered if there was anyone here who knew their locks who could fill in some blanks for me please (excuse the pun). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I took the old lock to bits and it looks like the first pin had worn to the point where it was jamming slightly in it's guide (also worn) and of course that pin sees most of the work (more than those behind it) and probably more of the dirt and wet etc.

Reply to
T i m
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I think that graphite powder is great IF it is the only stuff that gets put in there, ever, trouble is that people squirt in everything from olive oil to diesel and it ends up a right sticky mess. Generally wd40 is great for getting things moving, and washing out crud, followed by some 3in1 oil spray.

Reply to
MrCheerful

I've used the aerosol graphite powder on my bike locks, which are outdoors 24/7, for some years now and all well. Difficulty is knowing what they'd be like without it, and it is messy and expensive.

I recently had an area of the house sandblasted, and for some reason that extended to the front door eurolock.

Tried in order graphite-wd40-3in1, including soaking in wd 40, then reverse. Still solid. Then soak in white spirit, then graphite, and now it works fine, smooth as ever. Still a bit risky, as I'm stuffed if it jams.

Reply to
RJH

Best to replace it, mind you if it is an older euro lock they are very easy to get past, just snap off the outer bit and use a screwdriver, instructions are on youtube and there is even a special tool made for the job, although mole grips can be used. Something like 60 percent of burglaries occur through modern doors with euro locks. The other problem is the 'lever through the letterbox' to just push the inner handle down when people do not turn the key to actually lock the door.

Reply to
MrCheerful

It depends on just why the lock isn't turning. The mechanism after the barrel could be sticky - so any form of lube to the barrel itself may not sort things.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

I think that probably applies to any debris that gets in there though doesn't it, unless the lock is full of water and the debris water soluble. ;-)

I bet.

Yeah, I was watching some tests on Youtube where WF40 was put forward but under the thought 'we know we shouldn't use this but ...' and it seemed to work as well as any of the other things used (some specifically targeted for locks), but they generally said as you have so far that whilst good initially, may attract debris once the solvent has evaporated off and the sticky stuff left behind?

And of course if the key gets any sticky residue on it and say you are a builder with your keys in your pocket, you pockets can get brick dust in them and that can end up stuck on the key and then into the lock.

Again, my lock in question would have appreciated some proper oil / grease as it was having problems due to mechanical wear (and decent lubrication may have helped with the lock (if not your pocket / clothes) from the begriming.

I guess the issue these days is that few actually still use any mechanical key on the doors ... and the ignition / steeling lock (for those who still have them even) doesn't usually get exposed to the weather and road dirt.

Thinking further, I don't think any pin type vehicle slam lock that is used all day long (say the back of a courier van) is going to last for ever. If it is a 7 pin lock the first pin is auctioned 14 times very time you push the key in and out!

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

Cheers.

Well, I think the idea of metal on metal without lube would be considered a 'good idea' and graphite power does seem to be (or have been) the go_to lock lube for a long time now (presumably for good reason)?

Don'cha love it when that happens.

The thing is, the insides of these things are quite delicate (in a 'precision sense') so I could see how even a few grains of sand at the back of the lock should stop the key inserting fully and hence the lock working (because it's not all lined up).

Good to hear ...

Ah, and that's the thing isn't it and why I wanted to take this old van lock to bits to *understand* why it had suddenly stopped working (and what could be done to improve the lifespan of it's replacement).

Once I got it to bits I cleaned it in an ultrasonic cleaner and had it simply been 'gunged' rather than being worn (out?) I would have been

100% sure it was clean.

I'll pick up some aerosol graphite lube as it may penetrate better than the little puffy bottle.

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

It was worse than that, you couldn't get the key in past the first pin. ;-(

Sure, but (in this case) I'd investigated past that point with the lock still fitted to the van so knew it was a pretty 'hard' problem.

I'd also manage to left the first pin with a fine screwdriver so knew it wasn't seized as such (and as I mentioned, had lubed it with graphite power not that long before (for the second or more time)) but it was simply that key has to lift the pin(s) using a driven wedge type action that was causing the issue.

I was finally able to insert the key by initially slipping a shim of plastic under the screwdriver_lifted pin, and then sliding the key underneath and removing the shim. ;-)

Upon closer inspection, the first pin that was originally cylindrical had become shaped like an upside-down pear and so rather than lifting, would rotate backwards first (across it's 'cylinder'), locking it from then being lifted.

I might, (just for the S&G's), see if I can find a bit of 2.5mm diameter brass, stick it in the lathe, replace the very worn pins (mainly the first two) and then keep the lock as a temporary spare).

I could even open up the first barrel pin hole slightly and use a slightly bigger diameter pin, as I don't believe it lifts past the shear line.

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

Yes - I went through it all because they're pricey to buy in shops - about half online.

mind you if it is an older euro lock they are very

Yep - did it myself with the back door/lost key when I moved in. Mole grips in a few seconds (the barrel was about 3mm proud of the handle plate).

You can slow up the process by making sure that the lock is flush to a solid/decent handle plate (mole grips have nothing to grip) and fitting an anti-snap lock - only a few quid more. I'm not sure how much that slows things up . . .

A bolt doesn't do any harm - although they can be tricky to fit to a UPVC frame, and of course no good on the front door when no-one's in.

The other

Well, yes, can't do much about that :-)

Reply to
RJH

Exactly my view too (as a tribologist, rather than a car specialist).

I also suspect that having mineral oil on the surfaces displaces water from splash/spray/condensation a bit more effectively than graphite.

Reply to
newshound

But aren't there situations where in-depth knowledge of the environment can me more valuable than the knowledge of a parallel subject as such? . I'm not suggesting for one second you may not have all the answers, just that you may have announced a facet that could be vital (the use of such in a car).

But how well might it do those things when the oil is contaminated with say sand and what if it binds such contaminates together in a way that (say) graphite powder wouldn't?

(DA mode on) If oil was generally better at such things, why is graphite powder typically suggested / recommended? (DA mode off).

(Genuine questions) ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

Graphite powder is probably the best in a laboratory condition, but the real world brings out non laboratory conditions. My personal experience is as I have stated.

The very best lubricant that I ever found for all situations, bar none, including locks was called Triflon, unfortunately it is no longer available as such in the UK (it was about 15 quid a can in the 80's) and is now only available under a rebrand name at around 50+ quid a can (or more) but would need to be specially imported. As its name suggests it includes teflon in its recipe. If anyone can find a UK supplier (preferably) at a reasonable price I would be grateful to know the details.

Reply to
MrCheerful

Of course, but sometimes they can also be close to 'laboratory conditions', like a lock on an internal door that may be infrequently used. ;-)

And noted (thanks).

You didn't mean 'Tri-Flow' by any chance did you as I too had a small bottle of that and considered it to be very good indeed (also containing Teflon)?

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Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

That is the new name, it was called Tri-flon (I used to sell it in the shop), but there was some copyright problem. I have found somewhere doing it at 22 quid for a large spray can and free delivery over 50 quid, so I will order three from them and enjoy using it again. Trouble is, even at that price (which has come down) it must be hard to sell to the unconverted.

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Reply to
MrCheerful

Ok.

That one suggests it contains PTFE whereas the one I linked to says it contains Teflon (DuPont brand name for PTFE) but I'm guessing we can assume they are one and the same thing for these purposes.

I remember it being very light and mine had a thin tube that was permanently sticking out of the top, ideal for accessing difficult area and inside things but it did work very well.

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

If it has PTFE not made by Dupont and they claimed it was Teflon they would have had to entertain Dupont's lawyers in their MD's office.

Reply to
Peter Hill

The new WD40 with PTFE is at least superficially similar, and readily available at sensible prices. I've been using it round and about, but not for long enough to see how it compares with other things.

Reply to
newshound

Believe me, the effect of different environments is one of the very first things a tribologist learns about. I could supply references if you are interested.

Again, the tendency of oil or grease to attract and bind dirt is something every tribologist will warn you about. BUT, it all depends on the exact conditions and amount of debris. Some things are *very* sensitive to buildup of contaminants (clocks and watches), some are

*very* insensitive (lock gate winding gear). So it is very difficult to generalise

Yes, and a fair one. But I think you will find that the recommendation is very often applied specifically to locks (and a few other similar applications) which do not have to operate in wet conditions.

I would maintain that for most domestic and engineering applications, the lubricant of choice is mineral oil or mineral oil based grease. Not for food machinery or curtain rails, of course (although even for the latter WD40 applied with a cloth works well).

Reply to
newshound

I bet. ;-)

Because other companies also make PTFE based chemicals and now that PTFE has become more well know in its own right, maybe they have dropped the Teflon link and then they can add anyone's PTFE and potentially cheaper?

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

I saw WD40 being used as a comparison on some of the Youtube lock lube tests and whilst they suggested it seemed to work well as a straight lubricant initially, they weren't sure how will it would hold up over time or if any residual stickyness would in turn create further issues.

And that's the thing isn't it, with solutions like WD40, how well would they still be doing in 6 months time compared with say graphite powder in a lock or grease on a gate hinge.

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

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