Can a starter motor get "weak"?

My 87 Dak is acting like the battery is weak, but it has a Sears Diehard, less than a year old, and all the cells are full and check out good with a specific gravity tester. The voltage at the battery is 14.5 volts when idling and 13.25 volts after charging on a 10 amp charger. I cleaned both ends of the battery cable, at the starter, solenoid, engine ground and, of course, the battery. Now, after charging, the battery is good for maybe 4 or 5 starts! The only thing I can think of that might be at fault is the starter motor, but I never experienced a starter getting weak. They have always just burned out like a light bulb.

Any thoughts?

Thanks Jack

Reply to
Jack
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sure a motor can get "weak" - contacts, bearings, brushes - all can be problems. the same with other electrical issues like ground leads corroding at the chassis, motor connection, etc. check, clean and/or replace as necessary.

Reply to
jim beam

Every failed starter I can remember gave me fair warning by hard cranking. Usually about a week or so. And every time I ignored it until it stranded me. Three times. You can be smarter and just replace it.

Reply to
Vic Smith

I will pick up a rebuilt tomorrow!

Reply to
Jack

Pull and ground the high tension coil wire from the distributor, is so equipped, if not, pull the fuel pump fuse. While cranking the engine, measure the voltage at the battery posts. If the voltage does not drop below 9.6 volts with a fully charged battery, the battery is likely good but further testing (such as a cable voltage drop test, which should not exceed about a quater volt each) is in order before confirming a starter issue.

Reply to
Gene

Thanks, Gene... there's absolutely no voltage drop across the cables and a voltage drop from 13 to 10 while cranking the engine with the coil wire removed. I am going to change the motor tomorrow. I can get a rebuilt at O'Reilly for $35. This is a 87 Dak which I've had since new and this will be the fourth starter motor. I think this one has lasted longer than any of the others.

Jack

Reply to
Jack

It just occurred to me that I conducted the cable voltage drop test without cranking the engine, thus it is invalid. I will try again tomorrow doing it the right way.

Reply to
Jack

I've experienced this on old/very high mileage cars... if the bushings/bearings in the starter motor get draggy, current goes up and speed goes down, might be time for a rebuild. Sadly finding component parts for newer model starter motors is difficult for a consumer so unless you're like me and are used to working on 50's and 60's cars your best bet is to likely find a good local auto electric shop that does their own rebuilds in house, and pay through the nose. This will likely require you to leave the starter at their shop for a couple days so before you start source one from a junkyard. That one might actually turn out to be in good shape so you may not have to actually have your old one rebuilt.

I can't recommend parts store remans unless you get one from a higher end parts store like NAPA. I've had hit or miss luck with them. The worst was one that I bought - I don't remember what parts store, just that it was a discount chain up in Michigan that we don't have here on the east coast - because I was in a bind with an old GTI and needed one right away and they were the only ones that had one in stock; when trying to push on one of the .250" faston connectors onto the solenoid, the terminal broke because it was made of cheap Chinese poop and fail, and the store wouldn't take it back. I'd already proactively removed my original starter and turned it in for a core, so I couldn't even steal my old solenoid. That's the last time I turned in my core before verifying that the new part was not only dimensionally identical but actually *worked*... (lessons!)

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Get a new starter or a rebuilt one. Getting yours rebuilt is expensive and the parts they use aren't any better than buying one from a parts store. Plus you don't know if they completely rebuilding the starter, or just fixing what is wrong with it. We've deal with a local rebuild shop and we've had starters go bad after 6 months from them. Plus the warranty from a parts store will be better as well.

Reply to
m6onz5a

Yes, that test also needs to be performed during a high current condition, my apologies for not having been more clear. At very low current (as needed for the meter to read), the measured voltage drop, as a product of current and resistance (V=IR), would generally be negligible even with a faulty cable.

Reply to
Gene

Get a new starter or a rebuilt one. Getting yours rebuilt is expensive and the parts they use aren't any better than buying one from a parts store. Plus you don't know if they completely rebuilding the starter, or just fixing what is wrong with it. We've deal with a local rebuild shop and we've had starters go bad after 6 months from them. Plus the warranty from a parts store will be better as well.

****************************

Were it a vehicle I intended to use and retain for years, I'd purchase (as I have, an untold number of times) a rebuilt, lifetime warrantied unit from one of the discount parts stores, e.g., Advance Auto Parts, Auto Zone, O'Reilly Auto Parts ... and most definitely would NOT pay ANY premium by purchasing from NAPA, a dealer, an independent rebuilder ...

Reply to
Gene

you must like working on your car a lot. the component quality used in rebuilds from the discount parts stores is absolutely abysmal. they don't last. the only reason they offer "lifetime warranty" is that statistically, most people don't go back, and those that do get sick of repeated failures so they buy again somewhere else.

most starter/alternator manufacturers do full factory rebuilds that are as good as new. if you buy those rebuilds at the dealer you'll be charged through the nose, but if you find the right outlet, you can often get them at the same kind of price as a cheapo rebuild. i got a genuine denso rebuild for my civic, with full denso warranty, from amazon for the same price as the cheapo 5-minute crap you'll find at the parts stores. there's no reason it shouldn't last the 20 years that the original did.

Reply to
jim beam

That's the hype alright, and my decades of personal experience in employing their replacement parts proves it to be nothing less than absolute, unmitigated bullshit.

When time is not a factor, in my retirement these days I purchase from the least expensive supplier I've found,

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and have yet to experience an issue.

Reply to
Gene

good for you. /my/ experience as someone that's done this for a living is that having to fix something under warranty costs me money. i want to fit something that's /not/ coming back.

besides, you didn't read what i said - in the case above, the oem genuine rebuild was the /same price/ as the cheapo crap. why anyone, even a retired dude with all the time in the world, would /want/ to replace with inferior quality for the same price is something that simply can't be explained in terms of logic or economics.

Reply to
jim beam

and have yet to experience an issue.

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also has name brands at good prices.

Reply to
m6onz5a

I'm sorry, but this time Jim Beam is actually right.

Now, there are some good parts store rebuilds out there, but most of the stuff I have seen from the chain stores are just awful. What's worse is that there are actual counterfeits out there; I have seen some "Bosch" alternators with metal that would never have passed muster at the Tonka factory let alone Bosch.

Buying from a rebuilder doesn't guarantee the parts they use aren't crap also, but your chances are better and you can ask to see what they are putting in.

When the original bushings are bronze and the replacements are cartridge brass, it's time to go elsewhere. There is a LOT of absolute garbage out there, and the truth is that it's not all at the chain stores but it can certainly be found there.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

I FORMERLY did this work for a living in the 60's & 70's, possibly while you were still in a cradle, if that, before finishing my degree and taking a position as an engineer with CTC. I'm well aware that any vendor can, and in fact does (and some more than others), periodically supply a faulty part and that price alone is no guarantee of quality AND some of the same vendors supply items bearing the exact same part numbers to NAPA, mail order, "discount stores" and even dealers. I most often locally purchase lifetime warrantied parts when that option is available and usually refrain from buying either the cheapest or the most expensive alternative when procuring via mail order.

Reply to
Gene

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Which have also been found in the stores of the most respected manufacturers and on the shelves of the most distinguished dealers.

I'm sorry but anecdotal reports do not trump my personal, professional experience.

I carefully visually inspect and bench test new parts when feasible and my experience, along with familiarity with any given vendor, allows me to make an effective judgment call. And in any case, most replacement parts are installed on non-new vehicles that have had long years and many miles put on the OEM unit already and probably won't again be repaired or require replacement.

From the automotive to the medical fields and beyond, faulty items can be and are sold to the unsuspecting quite irrespective of the price that is paid or from whom they are purchased.

Reply to
Gene

yeah. but that is no excuse justifying why the ignorant would buy inferior aftermarket crap at the same price as oem, just because some high street retailer puts a "lifetime warranty" on it in full knowledge that most people won't be able to use it.

Reply to
jim beam

oh my gosh. should i be intimidated? or should i pull my johnson out as well so we can both measure up?

you're wriggling and squirming - there is NO reason to buy cheap inferior aftermarket crap, which you would acknowledge if you'd ever bothered [in your "professional engineering" experience] to take that stuff apart and were honest enough to admit to doing, when you could buy genuine oem for the same price.

Reply to
jim beam

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