Penetrating analysis, from the guy who remembers he received a "complete vision exam" in 15 seconds from a DMV clerk.
Non sequitur. "Operator" is synonymous with "driver", and perhaps they have concluded the average "motorist" isn't a "driver", and isn't worth a shit when they are jolted awake under pressure.
I don't have any idea how you may have concluded you're any judge of "drivers" or "driving" with your fistfuls of tickets... -----
- gpsman
How does this mandate make any difference if someone is stepping on the wrong pedal?
Where's the Regulators' Override Switch? We need to tell Congress to yank it real hard!
no, we need to yank the override switch on congress. throw them out and bring in a new lot with a strict 4 year term limit.
[snip...]
This only makes sense. Consider that brakes will override full throttle when both pedals are fully pressed down at a STANDSTILL.
But what about moving? Well that's where brake pad fade, possibly overheated rotors, and even brake fluid boiling can occur if the vehicle is constantly accelerating at highway speeds or greater. Right? And there were reports of the Lexus fatal accident in the San Diego area had witnesses reporting brake rotors glowing red as if they were on fire. Some news reports state the brakes were on fire.
Link to one such story:
Deadly car crash triggers questions about car safety - KSWB
Folks, this isn't nanny state stuff. Computer controlled cars with electronic components should not be runaway machines. There should always be an override even if it's a big red manual press plunger that mechanically--not electrically--cuts power.
Except that most passenger cars are not intended for "performance driving".
Plus, the override would only occur at full throttle acceleration and braking, so what specific situation demands full throttle accleration and braking on main thoroughfare roads and highways, not test tracks?
holding a car on a hill is not "performance driving". i don't know where you're from, but hereabouts, driver's ed teaches you to left foot brake and apply right foot gas when pulling away on a hill. [indeed, that's why the brake pedal is wide enough for two feet on automatics - in case you hadn't noticed.] kinda hard to do with the stooooopidity envisaged above.
there's no way you can assume a throttle is going to stick at just one position. absolutely no way.
absolutely not. brakes easily outperform the engine on almost any car, and /definitely/ on any car post about 1950.
what kind of troll bridge have you been hiding under this last couple of years? that "story" has been analyzed by the nhtsa no less, and they find no evidence of vehicle fault, only driver fault.
but there already is. in fact, there are three of them.
since you're simply regurgitating the bullshit that came off the steps of the whitehouse three years ago and that in turn has been dismissed as simply driver error by every technical analysis of the vehicles allegedly involved, you've either been living on another planet in the interim, or you're an astroturfer trying to stir the pot - just like the originator of this story.
sounds like that for sure would take all the fun out of ice racing with those spikey tires. I never tire of watching them going around corners with the car pointed the direction they want to come out of the corner.
Harry K
I am still convinced that that one was no accident but rather a murder, suicide. Too much does not add up to other than deliberate action.
Harry K
Why am I not surprised you believe in the pinto myth?
Holding a vehicle on a hill does not use full throttle acceleration, is uses the light balance of gas pedal while a) the brake pedal is pressed or b) for manual transmissions, while the clutch is held just at the friction point. Then the brake (or clutch) gets slowly released to start moving up the hill, and even the gas pedal may be let up some small amount.
Properly done, the vehicle does not jackrabbit start. Improperly done--like two of the local bus drivers have done when driving five speed automatic transmission New Flyer 40 foot CNG buses--then either the vehicle accelerates quicker than intended (like a small launch but the tires do not squeal), or the transmission gets slammed then the vehicle accelerates even slower than intended.
Another non-performance driving use of both gas and brake at the same time is dragging the brakes when they get too wet during a significant rainstorm. That also does not use full gas and full brake at the same time.
More than likely, the electronic throttle position sensor (more or less like a potentiometer), will develop dead zones. Remember, the Lexus accident in San Diego mentioned pedal stuck down due to a possible floor mat issue, which means at some point, the gas pedal likely went full down. I'd guess either because it was pressed full down during passing, or else maybe due to some cruise control issue caused the pedal to fully drop to the floor.
Why do I suggest possibly a cruise control issue would have dropped the gas pedal to the floor? Many years ago, I got to drive one of those old classic Chevrolet Caprice Classic cars (sorry, forgot the year of the car). Turns out the cruise control had a major malfunction--get the car up to 35mph or more, hit the cruise control button, gas pedal dropped all the way to the floor and the vehicle kept accelerating past the intended set point. Yes, pressing the brake did cancel the cruise control. Another option would have been to move the steering column shifter to neutral if the brake pedal did not cancel cruise control. Doubtful that the left pedal parking brake could have held the vehicle still accelerating with that much power.
Really? I faded the brakes on a 2002 Nissan Sentra, while going down a two mile steady downhill grade. Factory stock brake pads, obviously with some use and not just newly installed, but they faded. The vehicle still slowed as I watched the downhill speed, but I could smell pads burning at some point and slowing was definitely less effective. Applying the brakes too much or too hard? Maybe. Rotors needed to be resurfaced after that? Probably, there was some judder afterwards. After pads fade? The next step is overheated rotors, then eventually boiled brake fluid.
I don't think the Lexus crash occurred on flat land either, there is a downhill section just before where the vehicle flew off the road and crashed.
If rotors were reported as glowing/on fire, the brakes definitely did not overpower the engine in that vehicle. If the vehicle acclerated to over
100mph with the driver saying no brakes, then the brakes did not overpower the engine in that vehicle. If the vehicle crashed at such high speed that the crash was fatal, then the brakes did not overpower the engine in that vehicle. No matter what theoriticals engineers and others involved in analyzing the accident may come up with, the brakes did not overpower the engine in that vehicle. QED.Disproven by the Lexus crash incident in San Diego. It only takes on to disprove the theory. 911 call transscripts showed at one point is was said "No brakes".
Yes, but given a more complex shifter layout it may require more than just a simple upward push to neutral. If the Lexus shifter was in sport mode, pushing just up is +, or an upshift. Shifting to neutral requires moving left out of the sport mode gate, then up to neutral.
But if the ignition switch is a push button, it requires a PC-like hold to cut off the engine. Not something everyone is going to just remember right away, if their vehicle is continuing to accelerate.
Astroturfer? No, I don't think so. Everything else I'm not going to respond to, for there are many errors in engineering, why wouldn't there be errors in a technical analysis.
Did someone actually stick the Lexus pedal in the same make and model, get it over 100 mph while the pedal remained stuck, and then hold the brakes until they either stopped the vehicle or lost all braking ability? Did they attempt to reproduce the issue as closely as possible (i.e., obviously don't launch off the road and crash)? No, I don't think they did that. Therefore the technical analysis is still, in my opinion, quite incomplete.
(Top post replying...)
Why would someone call 911 if they were going to commit a murder/suicide? They would have just done it and the news would have reported a mystery high speed crash.
I'll ask again, as I did in reply to someone else's post.
Did anyone repeat the near-exact scenario?
Same make and model of vehicle, stick the gas pedal under the floor mat (but deliberately to reproduce the scenario), and try to stop the car as the vehicle keeps increasing speed. Does the vehicle come to an eventual stop, or do they brakes eventual fail to stop the car altogether.
Use a different stretch of road, with a similar downhill slant before levelling out, but does not end up with a point where the vehicle will launch off the road. Don't shift to neutral or shut off the engine until the vehicle has stopped or the vehicle is unable to be stopped. If the vehicle is stopped, then of course unstick the pedal, shift to neutral and shut off the engine. If the vehicle fails to stop, the scenario has been replicated.
Report the findings, get the ECU reports, see what they contain and don't contain.
If no part of the >
I am still convinced that that one was no accident but rather a murder, suicide. Too much does not add up to other than deliberate action.
jim beam wrote in news:jmaj55$e2g$ snipped-for-privacy@speranza.aioe.org:
AMEN! and no jumping to a different gov't job. no hopping between House and Senate,and then to some other gov't job. No "career" in gov't for legislators.
jim beam wrote in news:jmapij$puk$ snipped-for-privacy@speranza.aioe.org:
if you need to hillhold,that is what the handbrake is for. Left-foot braking is a BAD habit. you learn to use the same foot all the time for the same function,so that in an emergency,you automatically react the right way,and you cna't left-foot brake with a stick shift.
and i think the most important one, no jumping back and forth with lobbying jobs and boardroom appointments either! the revolving door between "regulators" and the "regulated" has cost american taxpayers literally trillions of dollars.
that's what i do - because my car is equipped for it, but on cars with ratcheting foot operated parking brakes, you can't do that.
i personally agree, but left foot braking for hill holding is in driver's ed. you'll therefore never convince the proles otherwise. and you'll need to convince our "regulators" who continue to allow manufacture of vehicles specifically to be left foot braked with double-width [both feet] brake pedals on every automatic and who don't insist that vehicles have hand operated parking brakes.
you're about three years behind the times, troll. the whole thing has been exhaustively investigated, including the "black box", including by the nhtsa. no vehicle problem other than floor mat. and frankly, if some retard driver doesn't notice the freakin' mat's in the way and doesn't reach down and move it, that's /still/ not a vehicle problem.
Cite? As in provide a link proving it.
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