Volt IS a hybrid

I agree. Whatever the configuration, it is still a hybrid.

"hybrid" is just the marketing buzzword du jour. the transmission methodology has been in use for over a century.

I guess my car is a series hybrid too cause it uses the IC engine to charge the battery which ain't connected to the wheels either. OTOH, I've used the starter on my VW to drive a short distance so you can't say that's totally true. How about we say that it's not a true hybrid?

While it is true that a generator-motor drive is old (first one I was aware of was 1920 (Owen Magnetic), the addition of a battery to float the energy and integrate the peak power points is newer, and what makes it a hybrid.

On 10/8/2010 1:22 PM, dsi1 wrote: .

Yes, technically it might be, though the standard Lead Acid battery does not have enough capacity to filter the demands for peak power, and there is no computer control to control its use, nor is the starter motor powerful enough.

In a series hybrid the electric motor should be LARGER than the IC engine. In fact, in a series hybrid the electric motor should be sized to provide the design PEAK performance and the IC engine sized to meet the AVERAGE power requirement. The main idea of the series hybrid is that (if not provided with power enrichment) an IC engine is most efficient running full throttle. Since the the IC is never connected to the wheels, drivability is not an issue and power enrichment is not needed. When it runs it should run wide open, and only charges the battery.

In a parallel hybrid the IC is again sized for average performance, and the electric motor sized for the difference between design peak horsepower minus the IC horsepower.

Are hybrid hens (chickens) hybrids too? How about all those hybrid crops that aren't fit to eat? cuhulin

well, /i/ think everybody now calling their car "hybrid" comes from the fact that the prius transmission is called "hybrid synergy drive", so it's just become part of the vehicle "lexicon-du-jour". and while that's jargony, for the prius it's technically correct because the prius transmission is indeed the hybridization of both mechanical and electric power transmission - the continuously variable transmission ratio that keeps the engine running in its efficient power band relies on electric motors to maintain that ratio, much like braking or speeding up one side of a traditional axle differential will speed up or slow down the speed of the opposite wheel.

I'd like to think that a true hybrid as something more complex than a golfcart with a Honda gas generator thrown on but technically you're right. Call it a hybrid if you like but I don't see the advantage to broadening the term "hybrid" to it's ultimate limits unless it's done for marketing purposes in which case, it makes perfect sense.

In message , Don Stauffer writes

It isn't may be lower, it is lower, the transmissions losses are at least 15% where an engine drives a generator to drive the road wheels.

In message , Don Stauffer writes

Only in a petrol engine where the lower the torque requirements the lower the compression. On a diesel engine however the compression is always fully maximum and the point of maximum torque is the most economic as indeed would a petrol engine be if it used direct injection without restricting the volume of air in each compression stroke however you'd then have the same vibration as a diesel engine but lower fuel economy due to the lower fuel density per volume. Hence petrol engines are quieter but diesel engines are more efficient.

No, the term hybrid has been used for over ten years- closer to twenty, long before the Prius hit the market.

The diesel also suffers some drop at part "throttle", or should we say reduced power, though not nearly as much as a SI engine. The problem is that the surface area of the combustion space stays the same as the energy charge per cycle is reduced which in a cooled engine does reduce the efficiency somewhat. The operation is less adiabatic.

Also the friction losses stay about the same, so the ratio of friction to power produced drops.

Maybe with a fluid drive. I have seen numbers for mechanical transmissions higher than that (less then 10% losses). Still, most electric motors are heavy, and batteries certainly are, so I suspect it would be very hard to make a series hybrid as efficient as a parallel, hence the popularity of parallel hybrids currently on the market.

But, a battery breakthrough would definitely change things. I suspect lowering the weight of the electric motor will be difficult- electric motors have gotten pretty high tech.

It would be very interesting to see an overall efficiency comparison of the Volt with, lets say, the Prius. Not sure how to do a fair comparison, though. Energy per passenger mile is about the best I can think of, but if the volume of the passenger compartment is different the comparison might not be fair. Making a super compact micro car improves energy per passenger mile with either type. Can't beat small size and weight for energy efficiency.

On Diesel/Electric locomotives it's 85 %, how can a petrol electric car produce more?

Probably can't, but then 15% won't add up to much loss for a car like the Volt. I guess it's intended to be plugged in and that IC not run often. Main appeal will be to under 40 mile daily drivers who don't want to visit gas stations, but don't want to be stranded with no juice on the occasional longer jaunt. But as soon as it's on the market there will reports of cross-country trips on IC generator only with no plugging in. Then we'll know about true mpg on IC alone.

--Vic

dsi1 wrote in news:UjJro.378$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe05.iad:

What do you mean "true hybrid"? how the drive train is connected is immaterial. What matter is that there's two sources of motive power. Nothing else.

I imagine the terms (in uncountable connotations) series and parallel are going to confuse the average Cletus for centuries to come.

If you want to call a golf cart with a portable generator a hybrid that's cool. I won't do it myself. My definition is a lot narrower than yours. It's a vehicle that combines the worst of both worlds - complexity and excess weight.

I bow to your superior mind, Bubba. :-)

dsi1 wrote in news:fOvso.1589$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe16.iad:

What do *you* think determines if a vehicle is a hybrid if it's not a dual power train?

A golf cart? No of course not. It has no gas engine. Or any other type A battery alone is only one source. The word hybrid as a very specific meaning in this context. You simply have to have two independent soruces of power. Any other interpretation is a flaw in understanding the word.

I wasn't trying to be mean, just making an observation on a couple terms that are commonly misunderstood if at all.

You are right that there's all kinds of hybrid vehicles, my point is that you can't compare a Chevy Volt to a Honda or Toyota Hybrid because there's a fundamental difference in how they operate. The most important thing about these cars are that they are more complex and weigh more than they have to and represent an evolutionary dead end. In a decade or so, no car manufacturer in their right mind would consider producing such a vehicle.

My rule is that I won't get into a Usenet "discussion" about that meaning of a word because it always leads to a protracted war with a devastating loss of wordage. I think words deserve better treatment. Go in peace, Mr. chuckcar.