struts for '99 Camry

my '99 Camry has about 156k miles on it and i just has the brakes serviced and the mechanic told me that i needed struts. there is no bounce in the car when driving, the cars never wanders fromits lane and the alignment it perfect even under heavy braking. the car still feels like it did when it wa s new. the mechanic said that on a scale of 1-10 the struts are about a

5-6. how do i know whenthe struts should be replaced. about 98% of these miles are highway mile on good roads and minimal abuse from potholes and such, it's a commuter car.

thanks...

mike..........

Reply to
JerseyMike
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They wear gradually so you probably haven't noticed the decline. At that mileage theyn are long gone - I'd replace them and you'll notice a difference.

Reply to
Wolfgang

Yes, the struts wear very gradually you will hardly notice from day to day.

The stock KYB (Keep Your Bilsteins) are up for replacement at around

50K miles, but they can be acceptable for longer than that. I've seen leaks usually starting around 60-70K. Some years of Camrys are lucky enough to have Bilsteins available if you can get them.

I think the KYB Gas Adjust are OK struts, but their coverage is far and few in between. The GR2(?) is the bargain basement strut at fire sale prices. I personally don't care much for KYB struts but often there is little choice for Japanese cars.

It's a good idea to change out the mounts and the sway bar bushings at the same time.

Reply to
johngdole

the mechanic that worked on the car wants to put in Monroes top of the line struts, i can't recall the model, but said they come w/ a life time warrentee.....any thoughts...advice??

mike.........

Reply to
JerseyMike

the mechanic that worked on the car wants to put in Monroes top of the line struts, i can't recall the model, but said they come w/ a life time warrentee.....any thoughts...advice?? ~~~~~~~~ I am immediately suspicious when the brake mechanic recommends other replacement parts unless they can show me or demonstrate why the part is defective or worn. I do not subscribe to the theory that one can predict wear in shocks or struts by mileage alone, and also personally do not like the harsher ride quality of Monroe. Regarding lifetime warrantee, you should be aware that the genuine Toyota replacement struts also carry a lifetime warranty for materials and labor if done by the Toyota mechanic. You say the car feels like new, no bounce, no adverse dive under heavy braking. Presumably there is no evidence of fluid leakage or physical damage such as bent components. Presumably there is no evidence of adverse tire wear when running your hand over the tread blocks in both directions. If they are smooth, and no other evidence presents itself, I would definitely leave the struts alone. The original equipment struts are gas charged and designed to work well with your specific vehicle. I do not believe Monroe makes the variety of struts for Toyota that Toyota does. For example when buying shocks for my Toyota truck, I had to count the number of leaf springs in the rear to get the correct part. I suspect Monroe lists the same strut for four and six cylinder, ie., fits "Camry" When I bought my Camry it had Monroe Sensatrac struts - installed by the tire shop that sold the older lady three new tires (she didn't know the difference until I pointed out the bald right front. (only charged for three though - but they were really cheap third world country tires

- no longer in current manufacture) Had a tire shop swear I needed new shocks to replace the perfectly fine Bilsteins on my Mercedes once. Seems these guys are expected to "up sell" as part of their job, whether you really need the parts or not. I changed the Monroe on the Camry back to genuine Toyota because I didn't like the jolt at a particular bridge transition every morning and couldn't believe Toyota designed the suspension that way. A tire shop once persuaded me to change the shocks on a Cadillac, and I was never pleased with the ride quality after that. Obviously just my opinion, but I don't thing a harsher ride is "better." I think a progressive well damped strut, balanced to the suspension is best. Today, with the tools and experience of working on the Camry, I would change my own struts if needed having recently installed a (Toyota) remanufactured axle. Seems like every time I work on the car where a mechanic has touched it previously, I find something that wasn't done quite right. Unless the struts were demonstrably bad I would not replace them, and if replacing I would use genuine factory parts. Obviously just my opinion.

Reply to
Daniel

I've never seen KYB as OEM -- in US even on Japanese cars it is always Tokico. I put the Monroe Sensor-matic on wife's Camry (they had rebates of about one free on them). It was tad stiffer than what I remember as OEM but not sporty by any means - if I were driving the car I would have prefered KYB ones which are apparently stiffer. Just about all the aftermarket struts have a lifetime (to that owner) warrantee. I did have Monroe Gas-matic on 4Rnr and 2 leaked within 30k miles - mI did get new ones under the lifetime warrantee.

They don't have to leak to be bad!

Reply to
Wolfgang

The Monroes sounds like the Fram for oil filters. Their Sensatrac using the "grooved rod" is not a good design. They've since moved to an "impact sensor" which is more inline with today's technology.

Sure, be aware of mechanics pushing struts and shocks. But they do wear out. Besides the well known rules of thumbs for checking them (published in manufactueres' web sites), your ride experience over the years will serve as a better guide.

Tokicos are better struts than KYB. KYB I consider in the same class as Monroe if even there, if Monroe didn't use grooved piston rods then it will be similar to the GR2s. It's in no way worth $250+initial install each the dealer charges.

KYB is a Toyota group company, a sample list of suppliers:

Brake calipers Ambrake Catalytic converter TABC (Toyota subsidiary) Seats Johnson Controls (JCI) Starter Denso Suspension (struts) Kayaba

Yes, just about all struts today come with lifetime replacement warranty. But most don't include labor, which is $50 per strut usually.

Reply to
johngdole

so stock (Tokico) struts are best, KYB's are ok??? and Monroes are not that great over the long run. i stilll have to say i'm not even sure my struts are bad, if i push down on the car's fender and get it to move up and down, it comes to a fast stop and like i said the ride on the highway and around town is great. the mechanic/shop owner who did the brakes has done other work for me in the past so i feel comfortable that he's not just selling me on struts annd his price on the Monroes was $391 on the fronts and $342 ont he rears for a total of $733.00 plus there was a $100.00 rebate so the total would have been $633.00. is this ball park for most all struts and would this be in line for the stock struts?

thanks..

mike..............

Reply to
JerseyMike

You should check pricing elsewhere for comparison if you decide to go ahead, even if you do trust this mechanic. ~~~~~ Copied the following from another group (I did not write this) some time ago, but made sense to me:

The "test rig" that Jason refers to is known as a shock absorber dynamometer.....and I own one.

Basically, it gives you a graph of the pressures produced as compared to the shaft velocities at which they are produced when the shock is moved at different speeds - ranging from a shaft velocity of one-inch-per-second to

20 i.p.s.

Basically, a shock that creates 200 pounds of resistance pressure while

moving at a shaft velocity of five i.p.s will =A0better control a car than a shock that only produces 100 pounds of resistance pressure at the same shaft velocity.

We use these graphs a bit differently in racing applications to "fine-tune" the suspension with shocks, but the above information is pretty much all you need to know for standard passenger automobiles....more shock pressure at a given shaft =A0velocity controls better than less pressure at the same velocity.

When internal valves and springs weaken and wear out (imagine how many cycles a shock valve control spring experiences in 50,000 miles of compressing to open and close the valving each time the shaft moves in or out) , they allow fluid to pass more easily at lower pressures - usually with no external leakage to suggest that any sort of problem exists.

The so-called "bounce test" only tells you if a shock will control a car while negotiating "Mickey D" parking lot speed bumps at less than five mph with a carload of rug rats and Happy Meals.

"Hand-testing" a shock off the car moves the shaft at a velocity of approximately one-half i.p.s.

A shock can "feel" good at slow "bounce-test" or "hand-test" speeds of one i=2Ep.s. or less because it is only passing fluid through its designed, low-speed, bleed orifices and/or bypassing the seals, but be a complete

failure at higher shaft velocities once it gets up onto the valving....sometimes, actually providing less resistance at five i.p.s.

then at "bounce-test" velocities once the valves open up.

On a smooth road, the shocks will likely be working in the 2-6 i.p.s. shaft velocity range....which simply cannot be duplicated by bouncing on the bumper of the car.

Best test for a shock (short of dyno-testing) is to drive it fairly aggressively - but carefully - over rough road. If the car remains under control, then the shocks are, likely, okay.

If one end or the other tends to "wash out", then new shocks (or struts)=20 are indicated.

Reply to
Daniel

My struts wore out my front tires prematurely when I neglected the struts. That's the bad part about worn struts; they wear out the tires in a cupping pattern. Since I rotated my tires regularly the rear tires weren't nearly as worn as the fronts. After I installed new struts I had vibrations from the tires that weren't as worn. This drove me crazy until I finally wore out that set of tires. Now I have 4 new struts and

4 new tires.

Lessons that I learned:

  1. Change all the struts before the tires wear out. Cupped tires are annoying!
  2. Change the strut mounts when changing the struts to prevent creaking sounds when turning the wheels.
  3. Struts don't always leak when worn.
Reply to
SPEEDY57S

Lessons that I learned:

1=2E Change all the struts before the tires wear out.

Yes, but . . . The struts have two functions:

1) mechanically holding the alignment settings - the top of the strut is fastened to the frame (unibody) through the strut mount, and the lower portion of the strut is bolted to the steering knuckle, so the strut is the central part that keeps the car on course. 2) provide damping by forcing hydraulic fluid through internal orofices to control vertical wheel movement. That's why I posted the "second best to shock absorber dynamometer testing" above. If the strut is worn you replace it. No need to wait. If it is still functioning properly, then you don't need to pay for an unnecessary replacement. You change them when required, not when some brake mechanic recommends the work. ~ The original poster said he drives good, smooth roads, and the car rides like new. ~ On a smooth road, the shocks will likely be working in the 2-6 i.p.s. shaft velocity range....which simply cannot be duplicated by bouncing on the bumper of the car.

Best test for a shock (short of dyno-testing) is to drive it fairly aggressively - but carefully - over rough road. If the car remains under control, then the shocks are, likely, okay.

If one end or the other tends to "wash out", then new shocks (or struts)=20 are indicated.

Reply to
Daniel

the car still feels like it did when it was new.

Doubtful..I had mine replaced with OEM shocks at 140,000 miles and the difference was amazing in ride quality. You just get used to the shocks wear over time and dont notice the ride getting worse. truly feels like a new car once done. Dont know about aftermarket you could drastically alter the ride to too soft or too hard.

Reply to
Rob

did you have the dealer di the work? if so what was the price?

mike........

Reply to
JerseyMike

No I have an ex Toyota master tech who owns his own shop and he ordered the correct parts. I dont have the receipt anymore so I cant recall the price. Huge difference in ride and the rattle I had from the front strut tower(new parts installed) finally fixed it.

Reply to
Rob

Struts can go hard or soft over time. I put in Monroes Sensatrac their best. Mine are defective junk, getting harder as it gets colder. At 80f the ride is soft, at 10f there is No suspension. I did not catch this till over one month went by and since labor on my 91 is 400$ US I have put off replacing even though the struts themselves have a lifetime warranty, my mechanic gave me a 30 day labor warranty. This winter I must change them as there is truely no suspension cold. Even just taking the car into an oil change place when cold out they warm up enough to give a soft ride till they cool down again in 15 minutes. Be sure to check yours, a good idea is change them when cold, incase this defect is ongoing, 30 days is a normal labor warranty, after that the cost is outragous for a 91

Reply to
m Ransley

Reply to
zaner

Their better strut seem to be Tokico the cheaper ones likes the KYB are probably what's in your car these days.

I've heard varying stories about the Monroes. So you might want to wait for the Reflex instead of the Sensatrac if you do go with Monroe.

I wouldn't put KYBs ("Keep Your Bilstein") on unless you can get a Gas Adjust version which at present time there isn't one available.

After markets offer excellent struts like the Bilstein, but it's available only for pre-97's. The Bilstein Grand Touring(?) costs within $20 as other struts online. What a deal.

Reply to
johngdole

Im sure just mine were defective

Reply to
m Ransley

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