Anyone who knows anything about automobiles knows RWD is by far a better handling vehicle than a FWD vehicle. Anyone who believe differently has not idea what they are talking about.
Take it from one formally in the business of servicing fleet vehicles. Every vehicle manufacture offers a discount to fleets. The difference from one to another is within $200. The two smaller V6 FWD police vehicles, that are available, sell for 2,000 less than the V8 RWD CV. The $2,000 is eaten up in maintenance costs in the first 18 months. No police department worth its salt uses FWD vehicle for patrol work. The PA State Police even ban unmarked FWD cars from being driven above the posted speed limit because several trooper where killed in FWD car given to them by the feds to enforce the 55 speed limit under the federal 55 alive program. They use FWD vehicles for administrative duty only mike hunt
Richard, Mike Hunter is correct. Why would NASCAR take a normally FWD Taurus or Monte Carlo and make it a RWD car for race purposes if FWD handled better? Why are high performance cars like the Ford GT, Porsches, Ferraris, Aston Martins, Corvettes, McLaren, Formula 1, Indy, and all Top Fuel drag cars all RWD if FWD handled better?
FWD vehicles cost less to produce than a comparable RWD vehicle, which is why lower priced vehicles tend to be FWD.
I don't mean in the nascar circuit.. .I should've been more clear. I mean in the rain / snow. I'll never forget the day in Richmond we had a blizzard -- and Richmond folks usually board up when they see one snowflake -- and I was one of the only folks who could get around in my car. I ended up picking a few friends up and going downtown to the diner for a long "snowday" brunch. I was so proud of my little Honda.
OK silly. You're right about all the other stuff. I mean in daily driving.
Imagine taking a 4 cylinder 2.2l car out against a Mustang.
Rwd sure , for high power cars its the way to go in summer. But in real real life where you own one, not 2 or 3 , a car that does everything well. Fwd is the only way to go in snow. Plus they are lighter and get better milage. Snow is deep here and all Rwd get stuck around here.
And your point is? I stated what patrolmen want and you state what certain characteristics are in certain vehicles.
The PD's can only buy the type of vehicles that manufactures build as "Police Equiped". Maybe you could explain why you're seeing many PD's using Impala's, Malibu's, Taurus and Intrepids? Living in your own world, not the real world aren't you?
Your bullshit. You obviously have no knowledge of PD's or your one of the problems. Many cops WANT to slide to a stop, and in the city I live in many cars were wrecked when they first had Anti-lock brakes for this reason. Chief issued an order banning sliding stops.
You're still living in your own world. I was talking about two specific models and your talking about total vehicles sold. I was involved in the purchasing process in my city for over 19 years and can state under oath what happens in the bid process for fleets from Ford.
I think it's more than apparant who's clueless. Unless you have some factual information I'm done feeding the troll. davidj92
I hope no one tells that to the drivers in the European racing leagues. Or to the drivers in the import/tuner classes in NHRA and IHRA.
Not true. Ford subsidises the dealers bids on fleet sales. You can take this from someone formally in the business of servicing and BIDDING government fleet vehicles. Two years in a row the purchasing manager I consulted to in the department I worked had to get letters, for the purchasing boards, from the local GM and Chrysler dealers stating why they declined to bid on new vehicles. Their letters stated the subsidies from Ford.
The two smaller V6
Very few government bids consider residual cost, only initial cost. If it is a significant dollar figure and the purchasing people are made aware of it then it can be considered as a qualifier. By law, it has to be done in a certain manner, to protect the taxpayer, or it can't be allowed.
No police department worth its salt uses FWD vehicle for
Why then are you seeing them more and more? Do you remember the Ford Taurus that had the HighPerformance Police Special 3.8L engine in it and was used for patrol work by many departments? I think that was the first I saw in the mid 90's. Now GM makes the Impala with Police Package and I think Chryco offers the Intrepid also.
The PA State Police even ban unmarked FWD cars from
Many factors could be involved in this other than the sole factor of the vehicle being FWD. Many state officers wreck their cars in chases and the chances of getting killed may be greater in a FWD due to it being smaller. My sympathies to any officer killed in the line of duty, and their families, no matter what the circumstances. I talked to an patrolman once who drove a Taurus 3.8L Police Special. He stated it would out-accelerate any of the RWD police vehicles he had ever driven. He declined my offer to substantuate this for him. :-) davidj92
There are conditions FWD has an advantage but in every day driving in dry conditions, RWD is the way to go.
Police departments have to determine is what they are going to use the vehicles for. For example, the Illinois State Police have gotten away from Crown Vics and have changed over to Impalas, probably because they no longer do high speed pursuits. The City of Chicago still has Crown Vics as do most other municipal and county police depts, with a smattering of SUV's thrown in for winter conditions.
IMO, the most effective mix would be RWD V8's and SUV's for responding in poor road conditions.
Automakers have come a long ways in technology. Comparing early 1970's technology with late 1980's technology is apples to oranges, especially with the advances in tires and suspensions during that time. A modern entry level Civic or Scion tC would probably run circles around the 1986 Accord.
They dumped crown vics because of possible saftey issues on the gas tank. Illinois? well here its been snowing and a Rwd wont do squat getting out of a foot of snow, like that BMW I passed because 10mph was all he could do without fishtailing down the road, Now if I had a Corvette that could burn rubber of course Rwd is it. But I have an Economy car not a 10 mpg hog.
Those that do not know a hill of beans about handling often mistake the fact the FWD vehicles may have superior traction in unplowed snow, with better handling at speed. The fact is RWD will handle far better than FWD on plowed or wet and icy roads and are therefore much safer. Just look at the typed of cars that were never sold with FWD. The simple act of letting of off the throttle in a FWD vehicle can send you into a spin. When one lets off the throttle, in a RWD vehicle, the resulting engine braking become immediately apparent and one instantly applies some throttle. The same situation in a FWD vehicle produces an instant loss of steering control, particularly when the vehicle is equipped with an automatic tranny. That phenomenon is the reason engineers designed the automatic transmission in ALL FWD vehicles so the lever can be simply slid into neutral without the chance of engaging reverse, to negate the loss of steering control. The majority of FWD car drivers do not even realize they can do that, and instead use the brakes, which simply exacerbates the loss of control.
I live most of the time in the mountains of PA, in the heart of the snow belt. I see FWD cars spinning their wheels on wet and icy roads, as the weight shifts to the rear, when trying to clime steep grades. . ALL my cars are and have and for the most part, always been RWD. A traction lock axle and a set of good 'winter rubber' tires is all I need to get me anywhere I want to go. The PA State Police use CVs all year round as well, except for when the snow is too deep then they use 4WD Jeeps and Explorers.
mike hunt
Ray O" wrote in message news:5bb44$439f02dd$44a4a10d$ snipped-for-privacy@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
You are free to believe whatever you wish but I know of which I speak I was Group Sales Manager for one of the largest mega dealership groups on the east cost for ten years. We sold literally thousand of cars to cooperate and government fleets. Dodge and GM TODAY offer government volume discounts as well. The Taurus you refer to was NEVER certified by Ford as a POLICE Vehicle. That Taurus 'Specialty' vehicle as Ford called it was designed for 'Security' work like mall cops and gated community security forces, but you are correct some departments used it as a police car even those it was not warranted for such use. The only other Ford Certified Police vehicle was the late eighties Mustang LX V8. We sold lots of them to the Florida state police Indeed the CV is offered, through Ford dealers with a larger discount of around $1,200 to governments only, in place of the $600 fleet discount, as does GM and Dodge on their FWD certified police vehicles today. But Dodge and GM, when they built RWD police vehicles, offered higher discounts back in the day than Ford. Currently it is quite easy and legal to prevent other dealers from bidding on the police cars you want by specifying a RWD V8 or a V6 FWD drive train. Many police departments that specified FWD have gone back to specing RWD because of the higher maintenance costs of FWD, however
mike hunt
. "davidj92" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@sigecom.net...
Race purposes and police purposes are different things, of course. For race purposes, spreading out the drive train cuts down on heat concentrated in the front of the vehicle.
Because fwd transmissions break more, are more costly to repair, etc. Nothing to do with handling.
They make up for it in repair bills. It costs much more to replace a fwd tranny than a rear wheel drive tranny's.
Yeah, like the caddy Eldarado cost less than its rwd counterparts? hahahahahaha.
That is a common misconception, but it is not true. A vehicle of comparable size, cost more to build with FWD then if built as a RWD. The reason being FWD requires more off assembly line pre build, which is more expensive than on line assembly GM, Ford and Chryslers first smaller FWD cars cost more to build than the larger RWD cars they replaced. domestic manufactures went to FWD in order to build six passenger cars their customers wanted that were smaller and lighter to obtain better fuel mileage to meet CAFE and still carry six people. Ford sold the first Escort to its dealers below cost for two years, until economies of scale lowered the build price, even though it sold for $1,800 more than the Pinto. The 4cy Chrysler NY sold for $1,000 more than the much larger V8 NY even though the V8 had a $500 gas guzzler tax.
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