Unscrupulous VW service dept.?

On Mar 14, 3:43 am, lolajo...@webtv.net (Gary D) wrote:

Gary:

This is a tough road, but if you have some of the basic
characteristics of a Pit-Bull, you can make progress.

1. Contact your VW Zone Manager. This may take some finagling to get
directly to that individual, you will get an unbelievable amount of
smoke and mirrors but you will eventually prevail. Give that
individual chapter-and-verse exactly what happened, days, dates,
times, and all the specifics you have. Do this in writing, copy your
state Attorney General, and if you are an AAA member, copy them as
well. Also copy the NEW CAR section of that dealership. This is for
documentation purposes to establish your claim and to establish that
you went the full route within the VW system.

2. Get your complaints verified by an independent mechanic. Another VW
dealer would be perfect if possible... and lest you think that is
impossible, some years back a VW dealer around here got put out of
business because of its service habits as other dealers were tired of
undoing their messes. But GET SUPPORT from another mechanic that is
CERTIFIED. Not just a shade-tree guy. There are actually forensic
mechanics out there, if you are an AAA member, start with them to find
one. They may even support the initial examination.

3. If you can get your complaints verified, and the limits of your
money-damages are within the parameters of your local Small-Claims
court file there immediately. DO NOT file if you are simply relying on
your word and 'common sense'. The judge will throw it out unheard.
But, two things happen if you file. The dealership will be required to
respond with an attorney, that will cost them at-least thousands of
dollars for the preparations and for the in-court representations.
And, they will be required to prepare a specific response to your
complaint, not just stonewall you. If, by chance, they do not show up
on your hearing day you will also win automatically... and as long as
the dealer remains in business, you _WILL_ collect in that case. You,
by the way, DO NOT need an attorney to take this route. Just the time
and the filing fees (small) which you get back if you win.

4. If you have the time and the inclination, and the physical
circumstances permit it, form an Informational Picket outside the
dealership. Check with your local township on this, but in most cases,
you would be allowed to park your vehicle with a large sign near to
the dealership and 'invite reasoned discussion' about your experience
with passers-by.

5. Seek out others who have been burnt by this shop. Post in your
local Supermarkets, churches, libraries and other venues that allow
public posting. Post on the internet. If this shop is as bad as you
suggest, there will be bodies piled up all over the place. There is
strength in numbers and much that can be done with a few people that
cannot be done by you alone.

Most unscrupulous shops do not survive long unless they are the only
game in town. Similarly, those that are unscrupulous are so because of
a momentary aberation in management for the reason noted above. Keep
in mind also that the New Car Dealer and the Service Department are
not necessarily the same people, with the Service group typically
leasing space from the dealer (at a very handsome % rent). So, you
will affect the New Car Dealer directly by your activities. That will
get the attention that may do you some good.

There is no instant cure outside television and the Bible.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

<<<<Contact your VW Zone Manager. This may take some finagling to get
directly to that individual, you will get an unbelievable amount of
smoke and mirrors but you will eventually prevail. Give that individual
chapter-and-verse exactly what happened, days, dates, times, and all the
specifics you have.>>>>

Where do you go to find the zone manager? VWOA? VW dealers? Is there one
particular person at VWOA that you can write to with complaints? I used
to have the name and address of an individual but I lost it. I wasn't
aware of the fact that some service departments are leased out. Is this
common with VW? Is there a way to find this out?

Thanks for the info.

On Mar 15, 4:15 am, lolajo...@webtv.net (Gary D) wrote:

The zone manager for your district may be reached either through VWoA
or the dealership. As to Service being a separate entity from Sales,
that is common across many brands, not just VW. *Mostly* both entities
are held by the same company, individual or group, but not always.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

<<<<The zone manager for your district may be reached either through
VWoA or the dealership. As to Service being a separate entity from
Sales, that is common across many brands, not just VW. *Mostly* both
entities are held by the same company, individual or group, but not
always.
Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA>>>>

Thanks Peter for the info. It's been really helpful.

Where are the zone managers usually located? At Hamilin Rd in Rochester
MI? Or ar they lcated in the state or area of their zone?

On Mar 16, 2:33 am, lolajo...@webtv.net (Gary D) wrote:

National Office: Manager, Customer Relations
Volkswagen United States, Inc.
3800 Hamlin Road
Auburn Hills, MI 48326
1-800-822-8987

Colin Gour is one name to start with.
Keith Price another.

If there is any way that you can view the Dealership Agreement for
your problem dealer, they it be signed by the Zone Manager and are
renewed on a fairly regular basis.

I guess we are lucky. There are two dealers of good repute about equi-
distant from us (we have used both in the past with no complaints),
Holberts and North Penn. We have purchased three vehicles from
Holberts over the years, new and used. They were instrumental in
getting considerable past-warranty service for my wife's Beetle and
have always been responsive and helpful.

At this point, both our VWs are long past warranty and so we use our
local shop, a family business working out of the same location and has
just enjoyed its 50th (yep, 50th) anniversary. The shop is ancient,
but the equipment is not.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 01:43:59 -0600, lolajoker@webtv.net (Gary D)
wrote:


Care to provide some details on why you think they are unscrupulous?

I too would like to hear the details or summary of your problem.

 Old business - posted in late Jan.  and in ealy feb.
timing belt noise - dealer couldn't look at it till next week  - didn't tell him
not to
drive it  
gary took it to a ( vw jobber ?, i think that's  the word he used) and the
independant guy said shut it off and said  don't drive it -- the belt was
flappin'
and shot .
 i responded to his post  with a remark from one of his first posts in Jan,
 and you peter, asked what i was talking about..  I then posted the dates of his
posts in a one line post, ---  papa  pounced on me for being a troll. (
apologized too)
I feel sorry for  gary cuz he did all the duck steps that vw ask in maintaining
his vw
with all the inspections paid for and maint. items done at the dealer and had he
let the
belt fail vw would have had to replace everything at no cost to him, but he paid
the
the indenpendent guy.
Something about rust being noted one time .. waterpump or tensioner replaced
w/o being asked to buy a new belt at that time.
 Gary ,  tell your story , I won't say a word on this anymore.      :-x

 


  
 

<<<<Old business - posted in late Jan. and in early feb.
timing belt noise - dealer couldn't look at it till next week - didn't
tell him not to
drive it
gary took it to a ( vw jobber ?, i think that's the word he used) and
the independent guy said shut it off and said don't drive it -- the belt
was flappin' and shot .
 A0i responded to his post with a remark from one of his first posts
in Jan, and you peter, asked what i was talking about.. I then posted
the dates of his
posts in a one line post, --- papa pounced on me for being a troll. (
apologized too) I feel sorry for gary cuz he did all the duck steps that
vw ask in maintaining his vw with all the inspections paid for and
maint. items done at the dealer and had he let the belt fail vw would
have had to replace everything at no cost to him, but he paid the the
independent guy.
Something about rust being noted one time .. waterpump or tensioner
replaced w/o being asked to buy a new belt at that time.
 A0Gary , tell your story , I won't say a word on this anymore. =A0
=A0 :-x>>>>>

This is indeed old business and I am still waiting for word from VOA on
their decision. You capsulised it perfectly except there was nothing
about rust. The dealer did the waterpump on warranty but never suggested
the TB should be changed as well. Also dealer said TB and it's
components are not covered under powertrain warranty.........BUT

This is not the incident I am asking about now. It concerns another
dealer (the one I bought my car at and who did all my maintenance until
last summer. I brought my 2000 Beetle in after someone spilled pop in my
gear shift, for it to be cleaned out. After it was cleaned for $250, it
started sticking again about a week later. They said to bring it back to
be recleaned. They called and said they tried to reclean it but they
found the shift solenoid to be burned out and needed to be replaced for
a large amount of money. I had to wait to have this done so I picked up
the car and it was obvious that they never removed to console and thus
never attempted to reclean the shifter. When I took it to an independent
mechanic, the solenoid was find and only needed a little better
cleaning. It has been working perfect ever since. Now a friend of mine
just brought her 2003 Jetta in for a check engine light. They told her
she needed a new combi valve for around $650. Before she brought it in
for the scheduled work I marked the combi valve to make sure they really
replaced it. After she picked it up, we found that they hadn't replaced
anything! The marked combi valve was still there.

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 01:05:41 -0600, lolajoker@webtv.net (Gary D)
wrote:


If this can be proved, the state consumer affairs office should be
involved. I'd suggest also contacting the local television stations as
they love to do stories on this type of stuff...

Thanks for clearing up what this latest thread was about, makes me
more sympathetic to the matter.

I stand by my original answer, to call a lawyer -- but now I'd advise
that the lawyer be your local district attorney or your state's attorney
general's office.

Isn't it amazing, after all the bad press and negative PR car dealers
have suffered over the years, that they still try this kind of stuff?  I
once took my '85 Jetta in to a VW dealer to have a rear wheel bearing
replaced, and when I returned for it, the service manager took me aside,
put his arm around my shoulder, and said, "Mr. Running, we know that
you're a conscientious, safe driver, and if you knew that there was
anything at all wrong with your car, you'd want it repaired right away.
  So, we noticed that your brakes needed replacement, and we went ahead
and did a full brake job on your car, without asking you first.  We knew
you'd want it done."  They were asking something over $400 for the brake
job, in addition to the wheel bearing.  I was stunned.  I said, "Take it
off, I didn't ask for it, undo the brake job."  He stammered, said they
couldn't do that, and I said, "Where's the manager's office."  He went
with me, and only a couple of minutes later, I was leaving with a free
brake job.

How on earth do dealerships think they can treat customers this way, and
still stay in business?

<<<<"How on earth do dealerships think they can treat customers this

I really think they count on ripped-off customers to just give up
because they have to jump through so many hoops and get the runaround
from all these agencies that are supposed to help consumers. I basically
gave up on the the whole pop spill thing because these agencies required
me to take my car to three mechanics and pay for them to take the
console out and check the solenoid to see if it needed to be replaced or
was cleanable at $250 + a shot! It didn't even matter that the service
manager admitted to me! But now with this latest thing, it fired me all
up again.

This dealer (Osborn VW in Lakewood CO.) is the worst dealer I have ever
dealt with. When I bought my Beetle there they had different owners and
were pretty good. But when the Osborn's took over, things really went
down hill fast. The only reason I kept going to them is because they
were the only close dealer to where I live. The other one's are over 2
hours or more away. The list of things they've done is so long but I
will tell about a couple of the more egregious things they've done,
besides the 2 just mentioned: When changing my oil, I watched them take
the belly pan off my car. When I went to pay they told me I must have
lost the pan while driving and they tried to charge me for a new one!
When I told them that I saw them take it off, they blamed it on a "new
mechanic" who I've seen there for at least 2 years! When my Dad and me
went to test drive the new 2006 GTI last year we were told that they
were required by "homeland security" for us to give them our social
security numbers to make sure we weren't terrorists! When we refused,
they tried to forcibly keep us there and said they would call the FBI!
When my 74 year old Dad threatened to punch the salesman, they let us
go.

One thing I forgot to mention is; You can tell VOA about this stuff
until you are blue in the face and they won't do a thing about it!

did you rate the dealers here?
http://1.8t.org/dealers /

You need to call a lawyer.

Let's hear all the facts first!

Perhaps you could hire an attorney. Even then you will probably lose because
they usually charge a whopping fee of 33 percent or more. Have you
considered small claims court? I think that can be handled without an
attorney.

And you are correct about the BBB. Not only does it have no teeth, it is a
business advocate, not a consumer advocate.

try to see if you have a consumer protection agency in your state ,they
have alot more teeth and if they get too many complaints about a dealer
like that they take it to the attorney general themselves ,another thing
to do is find out if other people is having trouble ,too ,then contact
your local network affiliated stations and find out if they do those
kind of stories and let me tell you something, dealers hate that kind of
attention .
good luck