Additives, accessories, and such

The thread I started on coolant filtration brought this one to mind, so I thought I'd state where I stand on this stuff, and invite discussion.

Let's see, I'll start where I already started:

Coolant filtration: A totally neglected but important item. All kinds of junk gets into your coolant. Core sand, bits of hose, bits of corrosion. Best to filter it out before you have to unclog your heater core, or worse. Bypass coolant filters are available at heavy duty truck shops, and don't take up much room. They're worth every cent. Particularly if you expect your 5 year coolant to actually last 5 years you NEED to filter it!

Diesel coolant anti-cavitation additives: Worth the money if you want to avoid cavitation problems, and some diesel engine manufacturers require them to maintain your warranty.

Oil additives: The vast overwhelming majority of them are snake oil intended to separate consumers from their money. But there are a few exceptions. Marvel Mystery Oil performs mostly as advertized. I wouldn't run it all the time, but if you add some a couple of hundred miles before you change your oil it will clean your engine. From the aviation side of the house there's AvBlend. Again, it performs as advertized, but since it's PMA and FAA approved it's expensive. If you're running synthetic oil then don't bother with them.

Engine treatments: Again, most of them are snake oil, but a few are worth the money. The two that come specifically to mind are Slick 50, and Greased Lightning. Both of them are PTFE resin treatments, that basically put a thin Teflon coating on your bearing surfaces. They perform as advertized.

An aquaintance of mine, a fellow pilot, flies for the Coast Guard Auxiliary out of Clearwater Airpark, Clearwater Florida. He treated his airplane engine with Slick 50 back when Slick 50 was still offering an aviation product. About 6 months later, while he was flying a patrol about 20 miles offshore of the Big Bend area, the oil filler tube came loose from his engine, and spilled all of his oil out. He flew the plane at 55% power with no oil pressure for 45 minutes to get it to an airport. Upon inspection there was no damage to the engine, and he is still flying around behind the same engine today. I know other guys who have had similar problems, and have had engines sieze on them after less than 10 minutes with no oil pressure. I'm sold on PTFE additives.

Synthetic oil: It's worth the price. The extra lubricity of the oil really can make a difference, and its detergent qualities will keep your engine clean. Particularly if you use it with a bypass oil filter the extended drain intervals will make up for the extra price of the oil.

My own little truck is an example. I switched from Rotella-T to Rotella Synthetic. With no other change at all my fuel mileage went from 26mpg to 28mpg. Basically, this means I can now get an extra 28 miles on a 14 gallon tank of fuel, or an extra gallon's worth per tank. So by the time I've gone through a few of tanks of fuel the oil has paid for itself.

Bypass oil filters: Absolutely worth the price. A friend of mine, another fellow pilot, ran a fleet of trucks, Blocker Transfer, for 30 years. He ran Frantz bypass oil filters in all of his trucks, and very rarely had to change the oil in them. He and his wife have a matched pair of Oldsmobiles, his with 177k miles, hers with just over 150k. Both of them have had exactly 1 oil change. Both of them have Frantz bypass oil filters. They change the filters every 5000 miles, and pull an oil analysis. They run the same Delvac oil that they run in their trucks, and the oil is so clean you have to turn the dipstick to the light to see the oil level. What's really cool about the Frantz filters is that their filter elements are really cheap. They are simply rolls of toilet paper. If you pull oil analysis then you wind up changing the oil when you really need it, not when some arbitrary mileage or time figure elapses.

Fire away! :-) AP

Reply to
Alan Petrillo
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"Alan Petrillo" wrote

Well, Alan....all I can say is that you were doing fine until you mentioned Slick 50 and the rolls of toilet paper filters!

You are definitely going to keep those guys in business.

Ian

Reply to
shiden_kai

Lol, toilet paper filters, I remember those from the 60s. What filter do you use to filter out the bits of toilet paper? B

Reply to
Battleax

If this much stuff is getting into your coolant, you have bigger problems then the items themselves.

If this were true then manufactures of these vehicle would be putting syn oils in all their vehicles. All manufacures have to meet Federal mpg guidelines and by spending an extra $10/vehicle (and passing this cost onto the consumer) they could make their vehicle look MUCH more attractive to the consumer and make it all that more easy to meet Federal requirments. Truth is, even the manufactures of the oils don't make the increased mph claim and they have done extensive testing.

The color of the oil on the dipstick is hardly a good "oil analysis". Also, the color of the oil does not say much for it's effectiveness. Oil has many functions in the engine. I'd not rely on its color as a determination as to if it should be replaced. I'm not saying that a bypass filter is not worth the money (as from what I've read they are a good investiment), I'd just not think that the color of the oil should rule out oil changes.

Thanks for the post. Good things to consider.

Reply to
Todd Copeland

Hi!

Not sure you can do that here...in all seriousness, discussions usually devolve into flame wars.

Is there actual sand in the core of a radiator?

I didn't know these existed or that there could be problems with this. When I "revived" my beloved '84 GMC w/ 6.2 I did change the coolant so as to start fresh. How would I know if I have this problem?

Lots of older folks swear by it. I've never tried it. Not sure how I would use it, really.

I've also heard that Engine RESTORE is good stuff...at least one poster on this NG (Doc) who seems to know his stuff pretty well uses it and swears by it.

Yep, sure is. My S-10 is going to live on it...coming up to the second change now. If I weren't so afraid my old '84 would spew to high heaven, I'd pop some Mobil 1 in there as well.

(Yes, I have heard that I should not do that, but I can get Mobil 1 the easiest and the container says it's OK for Diesels...)

I'm not for sure on this, but I wonder if switching from the dino oil to the Mobil 1 would lead to easier cranking on my old Diesel truck???

See above, does the synthetic (which stays noticeably more liquid in cold conditions) lead to easier cranking?

Not sure I like this idea. In theory I'm sure it can work, but some TP disintegrates VERY easily in water. I'll have to take some and see how it reacts/holds together in my recycled oil tank. Even if it holds up well, I would not do this...I don't mind changing my own oil and getting under the vehicle on a regular basis does let you see some disasters waiting to unfold...

William

Reply to
William R. Walsh

In the case of Frantz, filter unit itself has an, IIRC, 60 micron screen on the output end of the TP roll.

Besides which, TP generally doesn't come apart in oil. Just water. Oil doesn't penetrate and soften the celulose fibers the way water does. The preferred brand among TP filter users seems to be Scott, which has always seemed to me to be just shy of sandpaper, anyway.

And yes, these filters do indeed have about 40 years of history behind them. From what I've seen of them their engineering is very sound, and everyone I've ever seen who has used one swears by them.

They're also meant to be used with oil analysis to keep an eye on the health of your oil. They won't save you any money over just draining out your oil. What they will save you is the hassle of dealing with used oil, and they just might extend the life of your engine.

And every barrel of oil we don't put into our crankcases is another barrel of oil we _don't_ have to buy from the middle east.

If the idea of using toilet paper as a filter bothers you then you can look at a Gulf Coast filter which uses a roll of paper towels. Then just use a roll of shop towels, which are known for their ability to hold together in oil.

AP

Reply to
Alan Petrillo

Perhaps. IMHO, best to filter it out anyway. This also gives you the opportunity to disect the filter to find out just what is getting into your cooling system too.

Some of them are. Particularly in their turbocharged vehicles.

Almost all oils on the market today, except for the really cheap ones, have synthetic fractions in them anyway, which will give you part of the benefits of synthetics.

Hey, I realize my own little truck doesn't make a statistical universe.

I absolutely agree with you. That's why if you're going to run a bypass depth filter with extended drain intervals then you -=*MUST*=- do oil analysis!

Thanks for the complement.

AP

Reply to
Alan Petrillo

Well, if that happens then I'll just punch out. Flame wars are never productive.

Sort of. It doesn't come from the radiator, but the engine block. It's one of the leftovers from the casting process, and the manufacturers can never get all of it out, much as they might try. There will always be some of it stuck to the surface of the coolant jacket, and over time it will loosen and come off into your coolant. Most of the time it just circulates without doing any harm. A lot of it will settle into the bottom of your radiator tanks. But sometimes a grain of it will get into the water pump seal, and when that happens it's only a matter of time until the seal fails. If there's enough of it then it can also cause erosion of the water pump impeller.

It doesn't have any symptoms until it happens. Although one of the potential benefits of coolant filtration is that you can disect the filter to see if there are any bits of metal in it. If there are then you likely have a cavitation problem.

IIRC, one of the signs you have a problem is coolant loss and soot in the coolant.

Well, first, don't expect too much. IMHO, most of the gripes about oil additives come because people have big expectations and they're disappointed when they aren't met. Don't expect it to work miracles, because it probably won't.

What I've always done with it is to put some into the oil as make up oil a couple of hundred miles before an oil change. I know airplane owners who have used it to free up stuck rings without having to have their top ends overhauled.

Noted.

Yeah, that is one potential problem with synthetics in older engines. It cleans them out too well. It pulls off all the layers of sludge and varnish that may keep some of the leaks plugged. I've never had a problem with it, though.

Mobil 1 is good for diesels. The Mercedes guys swear by it. IMHO Delvac 1, which is its heavy duty cousin, is better though.

Likely.

Likely, but if what you're talking about is cranking in cold weather then the best thing for you is to use a block heater, and maybe a battery heater as well.

See my earlier post about this. Historically it does quite well.

So replace your drain plug with a Fram SureDrain, and use that to take your oil samples for analysis. Then you can have the best of both.

AP

Reply to
Alan Petrillo

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