99 Caravan, Just up and died!!

I have two easy things you can try. A cracked solder joint in the instrument cluster can cause your symptom. Try pounding on the dash, see if it starts. Pounding on the dash jiggles the connection a bit and makes it work temporarily. This seems to be a fairly common problem in late 90's models.

The other thing you can do is run the instrument panel self-test:

The following is derived from the '97 factory service manual: The instrument cluster can self test and give you some diagnostics. With the ignition switch off, hold down the odo trip and reset buttons. While holding these buttons down, turn the ignition switch to on and keep holding the buttons down. Continue to hold in the buttons until the word codE appears in the odo window, it should take about 5 seconds. If there are problems, you will get trouble codes. If there is no problem, you will get a 999 code for end of test. When chec-0 is displayed, the display will dim down. If brightness doesn't change there is a problem.

Codes: 110 memory fault in cluster

111 calibration fault in cluster 905 not CCD bus message from TCM, 921 odo fault from BCM, 940 no CCD bus message from PCM. 999 end of test (if this is the only code, no errors detected)

When chec-1 is displayed the gauges will move through their calibration points. When CHEC-2 is displayed, the odo digits will light sequentially. Chec-3 is the PRND3L check.

I had a problem like yours, and got code 940. My PCM (powertrain control module, or engine computer) had died.

-Paul

Why would a solder joint cause a car to die out? you can remove the cluster from the vehicle and it will run.

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

when you say battery is fine, how do you know that?

Glenn Beasley Chrysler tech

"maxpower" wrote

I was going to reply saying the same thing. My 98 G Voyager has had an intermittent problem with the cluster going completely dead, and it didn't affect the way the van ran at all. I opened up the power centre under the hood and cleaned it out (it was very dirty) and that seemed to fix the cluster problem, as well as made the van run better.

The bad solder joint is the ground for the cluster. I'm an electronics tech. When you have a bad ground, strange things can happen, I can assure you. Lines that OUGHT to be at ground can then have 12V on them. That's a different situation than a totally disconnected cluster. As you surely know, the instrument cluster communicates with the PCM and BCM, which CAN keep the car from starting. Maybe it's as simple as putting a steady 12V on the communication bus, keeping the PCM and BCM from communicating.

That said, I don't have any experience with this problem, but when I was diagnosing my bad PCM I searched the internet for similar problems. I ran across an extensive thread on this bad ground problem. A lot of people responded saying they had this bad ground problem too, and they confirmed it by pounding on the dash. Unfortunately, it didn't help me, my PCM was faulty. However, the instrument cluster self-test did confirm that my PCM wasn't communicating with the instrument cluster.

I saved part of the text from that thread, I'll paste it below. A lot of happy people said this solved their problem, so I'm a believer.

-Paul

Sometimes my van won't start and run but then minutes to hours later it is fine. These are the things that happen: 97 T&c Intermittant Dash Display And Stalls, Need help with codes 12,66,55 intermittent start problem '98 Caravan Sport

1. Put key in, van starts and there is no trouble.

1. Put key in, turn key and have no power to fuel gauge, speedometer, tach, temperature gauge, gear indicator, odometer. All the indicators in the top panel: check engine, ABS, Alarm, etc. function properly; van will "start" but dies the instant I let go of the key.

2. Put key in, no gauges, same as #2, van starts and continues to run and all gauges come to life (this is the least frequent)

1. Driving along and lose power to the gauges. Van continues to run without problem - just don't have any idea how fast I'm going. Sometimes the gauges come back to life while I'm driving.

Usually if it won't run, as in #2, and I continue to try it again and again (maybe 5 to 6 times) eventually when I turn the key nothing happens - doesn't try to start, doesn't click, doesn't grind - NOTHING! It doesn't seem to happen more or less when it rains; but it did occur less frequently during the winter. Now that it is warming up it is starting again.

Re: intermittent start problem '98 Caravan Sport Well everyone I am glad to hear that my little dash bashing is getting everyone going again. I took my cluster out of the car in April and had it repaired. There were two problems first two bad diodes and the second was a conection at the plug.

If the gauges come up the car will start. I can hit hard enough that it works, my wife can't. If this works your printed circuit board of you instument cluster has a short. The car will run without the cluster, but if you have a factory alarm the starter cut off goes into effect or the car computer thinks that the car is in gear.

Mine would also do the dash on / dash off while driving, but as you can see from the posts it also had the starting proble, anyway...., back in the beginning of October I went ahead and pulled the cluster out (very simple, maybe took 15 min), on the back of the circuit board of the cluster where the main connector solders on to the board there are perhaps 12 solder connections for the plug pins, people had mentioned to look for cracked or cold solders at those locations especially at the black wire connections (there are two) I didnt find any cracked solders however I decided to re-solder them anyway when I heated one of the black wire pin connections the cold solder joint was exposed, for all intents and purposes it was barely even making contact, it was more of a dome of solder, I finished soldering it back up and reinstalled the cluster, to date i have not had any repeats of either the starting or on / off of the cluster (knock on wood).

I was sitting in the van waiting for someone to come and pick me up for over an hour, during that whole time, the emergency flashers were on.......

As a rule, my understanding is that they drain alot of power from your battery, so if it was bad enough for the van to just up and die, I don't think they'd have run for an hour.

David

My son had a similar problem with his (my old) 94 Concorde-just up and died on the interstate. Having looked under the hood a few weeks before, I warned him that the battery terminals were corroded and needed attention badly. It was my first reaction that this is what had caused his problem (engine died, wouldn't turn over or even click the solenoid but lights worked). He was skeptical but we had AAA tow it home, we put new cable ends on, cleaned the battery terminals and it fired right up. It was obvious that the battery was weak and he replaced it about a week later. Hope it's that simple for you.

David wrote:

I have EXACTLY the same symptoms that snipped-for-privacy@egine.com detailed in the post from Wed, Jun 28 2006 7:18 pm in my wife's 98 T&C LXi Right down to the same four modes of operation/failure and that fact that my wife can hit the dash board hard enough to fix it!

In fact, I think it is starting to hurt my hand more because I have to hit it harder then when the problem started.

The first time we noticed it was a couple of years ago, when mode 4 (gauges quit, still runs) happened twice on a long trip.

Several weeks later, mode 2 (no gauges, starts and quits) started to happen to my wife. This would usually fix it self if it sat long enough. Was sometimes acompanied by problem mentioned after #4 (mode

5?) where gauges don't work and it just clicks once when you try to start it. (Please, no "you have a dead/weak battery" comments. I don't, I've checked it!)

Then it seemed to disappear for a while (not sure but I think it is worse in the summer. Heat / Humidity.)

It is happening a lot lately. Almost always the "No gauges, click only" mode and it doesn't fix itself any more. I've tried diconnecting battery / the 10 amp IOD fuse / and doing both. Nothing seems to fix it now but hitting the top of the dash board.

I used to think just to the right of the gas gauge worked best, but I'm not sure of that anymore.

I think I will try removing the cluster and look for cracked solder joints. I may have cracked a few myself by hitting.

I'm really sick of Chrysler vans. I had an new 92 Caravan that had wierd gauge problems (all gauges quit power locks would work one way but not the other) that were related to some control module. Started when it was still in warranty. They "claimed" they replaced 2 solenoids. The first time it happened out of warranty, I found that just disconnecting the battery would re-boot it and it would work.

We got this T&C from my wife's father, for very good price, but it has been nothing but trouble.

It's not too difficult to remove the instrument cluster. Fractured solder joints can be hard to see. I use a 10x magnifier and bright light- I'll walk outside and use sunlight, for example. You're looking for a gray ring around a pin. Safest thing to do is just resolder all the connector pins.

If you do the soldering yourself be sure to use ELECTRONIC solder, not PLUMBING solder. Let the iron warm up, then tin it by melting a little solder on the tip. Wipe off any excess. You do want to leave a little liquid solder on the tip to help transfer heat to the circuit board. Touch the iron to the pad on the board you want to solder, add solder to the point where the iron is touching the board, not to the iron. This should just take a few seconds. You want the original solder to melt completely and flow smoothly, but not heat too long or glob too much solder on. Let us know if it works.

-Paul

I just finshed.

I couldn't see anything wrong until I borrowed my eight year old's bug magnifing glass. (I have know idea what power it is.) But with it I could see a crack on one of the solder pins.

Just to calirfy, it was one of the pins were the wiring harness plugs into the complete speedometer and gauge cluster. The pins stick out the back of the assembly, which actually faces forward in the car when it is mounted in the dash.

I got the assembly out and removed the piece of cardboard proctecting the circuit board.

Then I removed the circuit board. It a was connected to the gauges with a flat cable and 12 pins that stick out the back of the gauges (4 for each gauge).

Once it was off, looking at the back of the circuit board, the pin with the cracked solder was the far right one one the bottom row.

I don't do a lot of soldering and don't have real good equipment so I settled for just redoing that one pin.

I put it all back together, and it works. I ran the diag and got the

999.

Of course, just taking it apart and putting it back together might have fixed. If it fails again I will update this thread.

If that happens, I was thinking I could just try a new cluster from a junkyard, because I believe the odometer reading is stored in the BCM.

Thanks for the help.

You're welcome. I'm pretty sure you got it, since it was mechanically intermittant (whacking the dash would fix the problem) AND you found a cracked solder joint.

-Paul