Maintenance - neccesities vs. money making

Your owner's manual is a good guide as to the "what" should be done "when". The costs you were quoted are way out of line. I get this stuff done at the dealer for close to half those costs...so that will tell you something about how high they are. Get other estimates.

As an example, I just had a tranny flush and filter replacement done on my 1997 Caravan at the dealer for $109.

Legitimate service, priced a bit high though. $100-$150 would be more like it.

legitimate service, again priced a bit high.

I'd get a second opinion. 60K is a bit early to need belts.

Probably doesn't need doing until 100K miles. OBD2 will pick up any missfires and report them.

Legitimate service, high priced.

Bogus service not needed.

Agreed for the most part.

Not necessarily -worth- what they're charging.

Transmission service a definite yes.

Better price them before you make up your mind on that...

IIRC, if it's a V-6, the upper intake manifold has to come off to get to half of the spark plugs.

Are you in Europe?

Neglected maintenance is not easily undone.

Some of the services are legitimate but the pricing seems a bit high.

Get word of mouth from friends/co-workers.

I wouldn't give 35 CENTS for such a "service", but that might have somethign to do with the fact that I drive a stick...

Worth nothing. If it *REALLY* needs doing (and I have yet to hear of a vehicle that actually needs it any more often than every couple of years, if that) save yourself a hundred and ten bucks by doing it yourself.

Probably a ripoff attempt unless you can wsee that there's a problem with the ones that are there.

300 bucks to replace a set of spark plugs??? If those plugs aren't made out of solid gold, and they don't come in sets of 50, don't walk out. RUN! No, on second thought, don't "just" run, run SCREAMING. Man... I want some of whatever it is these clowns are smoking.

Somebody is stoned right plumb the f*ck outta their pointy little head!

What's "service"? I can see injectors getting expensive, but THIS expensive??? Better double-check to make sure they're gold-plated when they get finished.

Overall, I'd say that somebody is trying like hell to take you for a ride, and you ain't gonna like where you end up!

Sounds about right. Check 'em. If they're getting worn out, replace 'em. (And probably for *FAR* less than the 80 bucks this thief is quoting you) Otherwise, fuggeddaboudit!

That would be scam-speak for "No, you don't *NEED* to do them, but boy would our bank account love it if you did. Wanna hear a horror story about what happened to the last guy who walked out of here without doing these expensive but worthless things? I got a different one for every single item, baby... Just sit down right there, break out your checkbook, and I'll tell you all about it..."

Check your owner manual. My 99 300M came with a fuel filter in the gas tank that last 100k miles. It should say in your manual how long the filter lasts... you may have the same long lasting filter. If your mechanic doesn't know that you need a new mechanic.

On 16 Jun 2004 12:53:26 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@gmx.net (Mark) wrote:

OK - I'll try to answer for you - being a "retired" mechanic I have nothing to gain by recommending.

A car with 63000 MILES has roughly 100,000 KM on it. At that point I would be recommending the SECOND transmission flush and service - poarticularly on a Chrysler, GM, or Ford - as they ALL have transmission issues. Adequate clean fluid is litterally the lifeblood of an automatic transmission. The plugs should come out AT LEAST every 2 years - even if they go back in - or there is an excellent chance you will be spending BIG MONEY when the time comes you NEED to change them. Siezed plugs are becoming commonplace as the change interval extends. Brake fluid is Hygroscopic - meaning it absorbs water. Water in brake fluid causes brake fade and corrosion. Should be flushed at least every 2 years.(ideally) Can greatly extend the life of calipers, cylenders, and lines. Fuel filters, when serviceable, should be changed annually with today's fuel quality. They are cheaper than fuel pumps - which DO fail earlier when filters are plugged. Belts are a maintenance item - and being rubber under a hot hood, they harden and crack. Much cheaper to change them before they break on the side of the road. Look at them. If no cracks or glazing, they can stay. Fuel Injector service? Well, if you need to pass a smog test, it is definitely worth looking at - dirty injectors WILL cause high emissions. Can also cause poor mileage. If there are driveability problems - worth looking at. If there are no problems, a GOOD injector cleaner additive like techron is ALWAYS worth using yearly.

The prices look a bit high - but EVERYTHING is expensive today

As for the oil changes - I'm not going to get into a pissing match with ANYONE over this - but good oil, changed oftener than recommended, is NEVER wasted, in my opinion. Make sure the old oil is properly recycled and you can still be environmentally responsible. Same as with the ATF, the oil is the lifeblood of the engine. It lubricates, cools, and CLEANS the engine. Can't do 2 of the 3 effectively when dirty.

Do you see problems with seized plugs at 100K miles?

The only Chrysler car I have now is an '89 Caravan with a 2.5 turbo and manual transmission (which has never been serviced). The funny thing is, the transmission in my father's '88 Lancer with a 2.5 and automatic, and 120K miles, has not been serviced either, and it still works fine. I'm pretty sure there were no "scheduled" transmission oil changes in '88 Chryslers, or if there were, they were at 100K mile intervals. Is this the case, and why do the newer transmissions need to be serviced so frequently? Are they that much worse the the old 3-speed transaxles like in my dad's Lancer?

It's doubtful on its face that a 2000 Sebring requires $1200 worth of maintenance in 2004.

VASTLY TOO MUCH MONEY for this service on this car. No bands to adjust and the linkage never goes out of adjustment, so the fluid and filter change is all that's required.

Not enough people do this often enough. Brake fluid absorbs water; it pays in brake hydraulic system lifespan to flush and refill the brake fluid whenever the pads and shoes are changed or every 2 to 3 years. $120 sounds excessive for it, though.

If they're original, it's about time. Don't know if there's one or two or more on this car.

WHAT?! Not. Yes, they could probably do with replacement. No, I do not believe $270 is even close to reasonable for it. I could be wrong; I'm not intimately familiar with your engine, but there it is.

Ditto here -- it's tough to change the fuel filter often enough, but $134 is obscene.

No. This is today's money making "fishing trip".

Go elsewhere.

Horseshit. Oil change intervals are longer in Europe than in the US, but they're not a "never" item. If they were, cars wouldn't make it to *five* years old, let alone 15.

Too bad you're not near Ventura.

-Stern

A lot of the component design safety factor has been removed because (1) it's possible with improved machining techniques (closer tolerances so you mostly only have to pad the design for wear over the specified design life and much less for dimensional variation, therefore less forgiving of abuse and lack of maintenance), and (2) there are tremendous pressures on the manufacturers to make things both lighter and more compact to compete and satisfy gubmint and consumer demands on mileage, performance, and handling.

Lighter and more compact means that the same amount of heat (total energy) is concentrated in much less mass, which equals higher absolute temperatures. Higher temperature takes its toll on fluid and certain components.

Years ago, you never heard of anyone changing the fluid in an automatic tranny (I think it was recommended, but nobody did it), and there were very few problems over the vehicle life. Today, if you don't do it on a routine basis, you're asking for trouble for the reasons stated above.

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

No, I'm in southern california. I guess that's also the reason for the high prices - at least partly. The guy is not the cheapest one around, but he is AAA approved and has an ASI sign in the door. I checked with the brand dealers around here (Chrysler and Dodge) and they charge about 50%-100% more than him...

It seems to me that the only reason oil-change intervals are longer in Europe than in the US is because more people can't kick the habit of changing oil every 3000 miles. Even in my driving days (30 years) I don't recollect an interval of less than 6000 miles / 10K km.

Now, of course, the intervals are 10 000 - 12 000 miles or more, depending on what the service booklet/trip computer indicate.

I find it hard to believe that modern US-origin cars are any different. GM's and Ford's European vehicles aren't, AFAIK.

DAS

I guess the oil companies -could- be coating their oil bottles with some secret addictive substance in order to hook the DIYers, and the Goofy Lube places -could- be putting that same substance on their service write up counter for the 'I'd rather pay to have it done' crowd.

Easy enough if you ignore the service schedule that applies if you fall under the "severe service" category.

My Saturn driving customers are having their 'change oil now" light come on at very close to 3000 miles, my 'other' GM driving customers are having their "change oil now" light come on well before 5000 miles, closer to 3500-4000.

Could it be that driving habits are different between the two? i.e., more mass transit available in Europe, negating the use of the automobile for errands and short trips?

First of all thank you to everybody who responded.

I guess the overall opinion is that the quotes which the mechanic gave me are too high. I called other places around here, also some Chrysler dealers and he seems to be not too far off. Some of them were cheaper, some were even more expensive than him. But even the different Chrysler dealerships quoted me totally different prices, especially for the Transmission service I had the full spectrum from 200$ all the way up to 400$. It seems that this engine requires quite some work in order to get to places (like to freeze plugs, spark plugs, etc - I have heard this everytime I asked people in the past or had repairs done myself. And then there seems to be the "Socal Surcharge" - the fact that simply everything is more expensive in southern california than other places.

Anyways, I guess I will do the transmission service at the Chrysler dealer that quoted $200 and flush the brake system, since I have problems with soft/weak brakes. Then I'll try to see how the belts look. Fuel filter, injection service and spark plugs I'll wait until I have more miles or get problems of some kind.

Thanks,

MARK

Thanks.

That really depends on the person, the habits and the location. But anyways,

300 miles are 3000 miles.

I still suspect that there is no real *NEED* to have it done that often and that people either know that or just do it in the same interval as everybody else there - which is less frequently than in the US...

Perhaps it is because in the US, owners and mechanics are less careful about using the proper spec oil (at least with respect to less expensive cars). Even dealers have been known to use the incorrect SAE grade when servicing cars of the make that they sell. So manufacturers may specify shorter oil change intervals to compensate for the likelihood that an oil spec of CarBrandSpecialLongLifeOilSuitableFor20000Miles will be ignored by many owners and mechanics who will buy the cheapest conventional oil that they can find (but at willing to change it every 3000 mile).