Quarter Sales Numbers

Hey! Kia makes cars that aren;t so bad. Simmilar to a ten year old Honda technologicaly, but new. Yeah - compared to today's imports, they stink, but they still are as good as Chrysler and GM - for a lot less money. Oh - better warranty than GM or Chrysler as well.

What about the Altima? ;)

Oh - that's Nissan as well.

Honestly, though - 175HP I-4 with no premium fuel requirement and a decent amout of space? What's not to like?

A friend of mine has one, and it left him stranded twice because it was too cold, and the computer flooded the engine.

Also, the recent recall due to a screw up in the computer regarding the pre-catalyst could allow particles to enter the combustion chamber. Worst case scenario is the engine has to be replaced.

I was in my friends Altima, and the ride quality reminded me of a Cavalier.

Brad

Yep, and they are cute too.

If my wife was able to drive, I would have seriously considered getting

2 Kia Rio wagons instead of the one car I have now.

Brad

140K miles. That's how long my Buick lasted before the engine threw a rod. Perfect oil, maintainence, and attention to detail by myself and my father.

Just self-destructed a week ago. No warning, no sounds, just two cylinders now have no compression/function.

Never every getting another GM vehicle. That's #3 that's bit me in the ass. My Mitsubishi Mirage(Dodge Colt) has far more miles on it and ran like a watch.

My Volvo? 230K when I sold it. Buick #1: engine barely ran at 150K Buick #2: engine in bad shape at 130K Buick #3: (3800 II engine) - blew itself up at 140K despite perfect maintainence.

The Kia or Hyundai? Guaranteed for 100K from the factory at least.

Next car - think I'll get a BMW 2002Tii and forget all of these computers and plastic crud. At least the money I put unto it won't be wasted since it's a classic.

I agree totally with the idea of supporting local industry.

But I feel compelled to point out that your making a mistake judging both Germany and Japan as a result of WWII. The people in both countries that were responsible for directing the killing of Americans have long since been removed from power and punished. In particular, Israel has an entire secret department in their military that specializes in tracking and kidnapping old Nazi's that they can find anywhere in the world and bringing them back for trial. And Japan served as our atomic testing ground which almost certainly has been responsible for stopping further world wars. As for the rank and file in those countries during the war, just as in the US, the media press was manipulated to block the real truth of what was going on during the war. By continuing to blame the people in those countries today for the deaths of members of your family, your basically blaming the gun for their deaths, rather than the shooters of the gun.

Ted

I have bought a 1999 GMC Jimmy (brand new) and I have had to:

- replace the rear main seal

- replace the oil cooler lines (three times)

- re-glue the outside door cladding

- replace the wheel hubs+ bearings (3 of them)

- replace the seat back handle

- replace the head gasket

- then another oil leak: I was told the rear main seal was leaking again as well as the manifold intake. Just when I was pondering what to do about this, the engine blows (I have put in a new engine) after less than four years and 110,000 kms.

- replaced the turn signal (around CDN$500)

- noise in the dashboard: it appears that an engine mount is bad

I would love to support the North American car industry, however, when I am getting ripped off by GM (everyone: from managers who make crappy decisions, engineers who design crappy products, assembly line workers who don't give a damn about their work and QA people who sleep on the job), why should I care if GM goes bust tomorrow ? Happy riddance !

ou live in, you should seriously consider

Well, I've moved to this country and since then I've only bought American cars: 1 from Chrysler and 3 from GM. ;-)

However, not aping what Japan does is better for America. Japan does that at its own loss, more than America's. You see, the consumers are forced to pay more for their cars because of limited foreign competition, whereas we have a more competitive market with lower prices. Were America to do with cars what it did with steel, then I'd be worried.

America is one of the few countries in the world where cars are everyone's commodity, not a luxury item.

What's to like about 175HP? What's to like about an interior worse than a Chevy? What's to like about goofy tail lights and cheap rear door machining? What's to like about a rear beam axle? What's to like about the champion of torque-steer?

Are you implying that they are just bad? :-)

I'd say it's more like 30 years-old Honda techonology...

Yeah, right.

If'd have taken the time to check the list of exceptions you'd realize that it's just a deception. BTW, one doesn't get the 10 years if one doesn't waive the right to sue...

I agree, but I think it's necessary to qualify these statistics. I wonder if the typical Buick buyer puts the same number of miles as the average buyer of the market...

Ummmm, that seems to be 40,000 miles past the expiration of the Kia warranty, so what is your point. BTW - my 1993 Jeep GC Laredo now has 192,000 miles on it and my 1996 Chrysler T&C LXi now has 161,000 miles on it and both are going strong. Though I gave up on GM in 1992 when I purchased my first Chrysler T&C, the 1983 Buick Electra Wagon had 189,000 miles on it when it was traded in. I do question, though, why you are complaining about your Buicks in a Chrysler newsgroup. Care to enlighten us?????

Hey Alex - I have some news for you. This is a CHRYSLER newsgroup. We really don't care about GM!

You have to be kidding. It's not great, but it's better than a Chevy. Shoot, Ford is better than Chevy. Only Hyundai was cheaper than GM's econoboxes.

Changed for 2004. New exterior, new lights. Same underneath, but now looks like a small A4.

Since it's FWD, no big deal either way.

It has the stiffest body of any car in its class, so I think they figured it out pretty well. Honestly, go test-drive one and see how well it moves and handles. Test the SE-R Spec V also - huge improvement - like a hopped up Civic without any work.

No. 10. The best Honda and Toyota were making a decade ago - they aren't SOTA to be sure now, but back then, they were fine and reliable vehicles. Many are still on the road.

Of you could get Jimmy and take your chances.

$9K for a Rio? It whomps on the Metro in every test. More power, better warranty, less cost. TONS less cost.

GM makes fine cars at the upper end like the LeSabre, but their low-end is apallingly poor and flimsy. They really don't try any harder to build a decent small car than they did with the EV-1.

So - I see - you have to resort to lawyers and lemon laws to get anything from GM. Nice.

But you see, that really isn't true and a little examination will show why.

The true cost to an individual of an auto is not just the car itself, it's also the infrastructure to support that car.

In the US, we all feel it's everyone's God-given right to own a car no matter how much a beater it is. So we use an enormous amount of foreign oil to keep them all fueled, thus we have to finance a large military to keep order in the Mideast. (to say nothing of subsidys we are paying those countries) We also have to pay for a huge infrastructure in roads, and the maintainence on them. We also have increased medical and legal costs due to increased number of vehicle accidents and we also all pay a decrease in quality of life due to smog, time wasted on the highway due to congestion, etc. etc. This is all due to the sheer numbers of vehicles owned in the country.

However, in Japan since the government has made car ownership more expensive, fewer people drive, thus the societal costs that aren't blatently obvious are much less. As a result the Japanese government is putting their money into other things than supporting a big private car vehicle ownership thing. Additionally, because they don't assume that everyone has the right to own a vehicle no matter how poor, they can (and are) a lot tougher on vehicle inspections (ie: emissions) which helps as well to improve quality of life.

This would not be a problem if every car owner was responsible and didn't operate vehicles that had problems (thus increasing pollution) and didn't drive unless necessary and when they did drive they combined trips, (thus decreasing congestion) and lived near their work place (thus reducing commuter time) and didn't operate vehicles when they were impared by drunkenness, inexperience, age, or stupidity, and when they did operate vehicles, obeyed the traffic laws.

Unfortunately, because we regard them as commodities, this by default allows that bottom-of-the-barrel 1% of vehicle owners that are morons, to spoil the experience for everyone else.

Ted

Arianna........is that really you????

Please tell us which college taught you that stuff? I want to make sure none of my grand children go to that school. Do you actually believe our armed forces exist simply to protect the oil supply? We protect the world oil supply to keep the worlds economy from collapsing, which would effect ours more than the lose of foreign oil would effect our economy. The only reason we import oil is because it is less expensive to produce than domestic oil. One of the primary reason domestic oil is more expensive is BECAUSE we DO care about the environment. We have passed environmental laws that resulted in making domestic oil much more expensive. Oil stocks are used for many things beside fuel, only a small percentage of each barrel of oil goes off as gasoline. It is our environmental laws the prevent us from using more coal, that is much less expensive than oil, as a replacement for oil stocks. We have all the oil we need within our boarders and in our offshore oil reserves. If all of a sudden we consumed

1/3 less crude, we would actually INCREASE the percentage of oil that we import, not decrease the percentage, because of the lower price. Without even trying I'll bet, if you did just a little research, you could find several dozen countries none of which have oil, that are free today because of the US and our military.

mike hunt

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

All of the reliability data I've seen still puts the Koreans well behind the Americans ... but the gap is narrowing quickly. I have no doubt they will catch up as the Koreans are anal about beating the Japanese in every way possible. They've pretty much done so in electronics and autos will happen in due time.

Matt