Quarter Sales Numbers

True, but any car that has a 100K warranty on the engine is going to be good for 1.5x that in almost all cases - or else the maker would get reamed on warrany repairs.

My GM when it was new? 3 years, 36K miles. That comes out to about

4 times the warranty. On the Kias, even if they are made half as well as the new GM motors, they should be good for twice their warranty, or about 200K miles.

CV joints, alternators, clutches, - that's all acceptable to fail. The engine at 120-140K on three cars? Not good.

It all depends on the standard deviation of the mileage at engine failure. If the SD is small enough, then a mean of 110K would be sufficient. I have no idea what the stats look like for engine failure for any automaker and I doubt they make that information readily available. It would be great to know, however!

Your Buick engines have come pretty close though to even 1.5 x 100K.

On what data do you make this assertion?

I agree that I expect at least 150K on today's engines if well maintained, but I don't know if that is a reasonable expectation. I certainly didn't expect my 84 Accord to have an engine failure at 72,000 miles, but I have a letter from the Honda zone office that says that this is within "Honda's manufacturing tolerances", or at least was at the time the letter was written in the late 80s. I didn't find that reasonable so I've never bought another Honda or anything with a Honda engine since then.

Matt

Nothing like being shoved into a train when heading to a 500 sq.ft. appartment! :-)

Oh, boy...

Ford is beeter than Chevy??? When was the last time you've been in one? I did consider an Altima 2 years ago and got put off by so many things...

Ah, yes, the japanese recipe...

Say what???

One has to like changing lanes with the trottle alone... :-)

Just take a lok under any Koeran car and notice the huge steel reinforcements to make it comply with American crash tests. The Japanese did it much better then...

You mean the Chevy Metr, AKA Suzuki Switft? I thought you were talking about cars...

I don't consider sub-compacts worthy my concern. One has to want a new car badly to shell off such amount of money on a POS of a car when for that amount one can get an off-lease 3 year-old car with just

36000mls...

But if you insist: no, I don't think that there's any worthy domestic sub-compact. And no worthy Korean sub-compact either. In this category, there are more sensible options from the Japanese manufacturers.

REad my lips: in order to get Kia or Hyundai's 10-year warranty you have to waive your right to sue, including any lemon law in your state. You basicaly agree to resort to the arbitration company they employ only, or risk voiding that "wonderful" warranty...

Unfortunately, Ford's Focus beats the stuffing out of GM's little cars.

Yeah. I hated the Altima as well. OTOH, the Sentra was nice. Evidently, Nissan makes great off-road and small cars, but can't get the big car formula right.

Hey - it works. Very attractive compared to the 2003 models.

I can completely understand. Honda made good vehicles when it was thier only line, but now their Hondas are second-rate due to the Acuras getting all the goodies. Toyota does the same thing, as does Mitsubishi.

Though to be honest, Mitsubishi and Toyota are better about this than Honda - at least they HAVE luxury and high-end vehicles in their budget lineups.

No. We have 5% of the world's oil supply and use 25%.

Hyundai is quite reliable now -- check the CR data. Kia lags, and who knows how the Daewoo-built, Suzuki-badged cars will do?

As an ex-owner of a '98 Cavalier, you've got to be joking. The Altima is a far superior car in every conceivable way, interior included.

Also, Altimas use a fully independent rear suspension. The rear beam axle is long gone.

I can also assure you that the torque steer is only a big deal to auto reviewers and people who don't actually own the cars. Most of us learn to deal with it about 2 hours after taking delivery, if not during the test drive itself. Since I actually know how to drive, I don't find it to be a big deal.

Rear door machining? Now, you're nitpicking. What do YOU drive, so I can put it on my list of Maxima-killing sports sedans?

So you're telling me you own NO Japanese electronics? Nothing from Germany?

I'm glad they didn't, else we'd all be driving K-cars and Pintos.

THIS, we agree on. I did own a VW Jetta at one time, and it about ate me alive. I'm in complete disagreement with people who buy Japanese autos because of perceived high quality. I do think that most new US vehicles are just as high quality as Japanese makes. I bought my Maxima because no US automaker has an equivalent, except maybe the CTS, and pricewise that is out of my league. If it had been a "Chevrolet Maxima", I would have gladly bought it just the same.

I think so too, but not with flying colors. Yet, I could never stand the Mondeo or the Taurus, way below the competition from GM...

Argh!

I couldn't care less about either...

It may work for you, but when the profile of the new TL is from the B column onward a Bonneville and, backwards, a Phaeton, to me, it's neither, it's nothing. Yawn...

Funny, since the same company owns both.

No, it really is. Kia has better layout, design, and features by far, and Hyundai has slightly better reliability. Go figure.

Yeah, but I suspect they're made in different plants (except for the Sonata-clone, Optima).

Coming from a Cavalier, I see what you mean...

My mistake. The previous Maxima was like that.

I prefer cars which keep it minimal. No, but no, thanks. I don't like to make excuses for lack of refinement.

Who's talking about the Maxima? If you can swallow the small trapezoidal window s in the rear doors of a car with barely any straight line, knock yourself out.

Look at the variation among GM brands...

Matt

Hyundai recently bailed Kia out. Prior to that, they were really two different manufacturers.

Brad

:-) Well, that's a choice that has little to do with a car - at least not in the back seats of what they sell for cars in Japan. ;-)

Overpopulation is a choice that people in a society make. I live in a growing urban area and constantly read in the paper about people complaining about their quality of life being degraded by more people moving in. Most of them of course are also out having the usual American 3.5 children.

Ted

If you don't like it you don't buy it. Maybe many Americans disagree with your opinion.

DAS

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