Re: Modern Tires Ruin the Roads

It is water under the concrete that causes the biggest problem when it freezes. If the subgrade preparation and drainage isn't good, the entire slab will heave causing cracks over time.

Surface damage can and does occur from the very small shrinkage cracks that exist in virtually all concrete and these are susceptible to salt and water damage over time. Yes, good concrete will last 20 years, but I've seen concrete that didn't last 10. And even 20 years is pretty expensive now that concrete costs several million dollars per mile of four-lane highway.

Matt

Perhaps it was due to tire resistance, but I doubt it. IMHO it was due to the poor road constuction back then. Modern roads are much more heavily built than they were in the bias ply days, at least where I live. Nowadays cities near here gut the old road and lay in much more base rock and asphalt than they took out. Compaction and testing methods have also greatly improved, as have materials. So, if you want to take the opinion of a person who deals with road reconstruction on a peripheral basis, the tires may not have had much to do with it. More important than the tires is the amount of traffic, and how heavy the vehicles are, when it comes to roadway wear.

WW (almost a geezer, depending on what the definition of THAT is!)

I'm completely mystified. How obvious a troll does dear Nomen has to post before people will get the message and NOT RESPOND?

The secret is SMOOTH. As in WAY too smooth to provide adequate traction for safe highway driving. A textured concrete surface WILL deteriorate from freeze-thaw, and WILL end up with salt embeded in the concrete. Up here in the "great white north" the vast majority of highway surfaces are asphalt of one type or other. VERY little exposed concrete. The salt used on the roads has severely damaged MANY re-enforced concrete structures- like bridges bu corroding the encapsulated re-bar, and splitting the concrete.

I wouldn't say it wasn't successful - the testing continues. A few more years will start to tell the tale.

No, the geezer is correct in his tire resistance theory. But it has nothing to do with bias ply vs. radial ply. A vehicle moving in a straight line wants to continue in a straight line, even while turning. Thankfully, there is usually enough tire resistance to overcome this tendency. The curves in a gravel road take extra load because of it.

More important than the tires is the

Absolutely.

Dave

The surface of concrete is absorbant, if you have oil drips on the surface of the smoothest concrete they will stain. The places that the oil goes is where the water goes, and freeze thaw will soon etch and destroy the smooth surface.

Ted

Your sig line explains it all.

you can't understand b/c it's rooted in human nature.

Post secondary education is about knowing more and more about less and less.

PS this isn't a flame, just an observation

I don't think his PhD is in English or Eng. Lit.

I work in a machinery field infested with engineering types and I can tell you that knowledge of grammar and spelling is abysmal on both sides of the Atlantic.

Similar applies to scientists, many educated to degree or postgraduate level. It is kwite apawling.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

What I found surprising to learn just a few years ago was how little international exchange there was on the question of road surfacing materials. You'd think that companies would take the best practice and experience on a global basis and apply that. But they don't or, at least, didn't. Everybody was ploughing his own little furrow, so to speak.

I happened to sit next to someone on an airport shuttle bus who was on the way to (one of?) the first international conferences in this field. And it was being held in Iceland (hohoho!) to be on 'neutral' territory...

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

Probably!

Matt

Yes it are! :-)

Matt

Yes, that is quite odd. When I lived in England a couple of decades ago, I noticed that their roads were generally in better shape than those in the States. Also, they seemed to have much smooth approaches to their bridges, whereas it seems that ours always have a sag where the road has settled right before the bridge.

I suspect some has to do with climate differences, but I always wondered if there were some materials or techniques that were also making a difference that could be shared.

Matt

Tar MacAdam - The beginnings of the modern paved road - named after John Loudon MacAdam - a Scot, from whom we get the word "tarmac".

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Best practice means taking into account traffic and climatic conditions, of course. And axle loads.

The roads in hot regions needs to be different to those in cold. Particular problems arise when the temps fluctuate from -10 to +30 degC over the year, of course...

From my experience of driving around in different places (and from comments from that road engineer) I have no doubt things could be done better in many places.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

Maybe there is a bit of a not-invented-here mindset in Britain because of that.

However, you would think that, pooling the engineerng knowledge just five of the biggies -- USA, France, Germany, Britain, Italy (a pioneer of private motorways in Europe) -- we could do better.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

I agree, but I'm not sure there is a strong incentive to do better. The road building companies get paid by the mile, not by how good their product is, unlike most other companies. And they compete for work based primarily on price, not quality. I've always thought that "low bidder contracting" was stupid, but that is how things are done in the road building industry, at least in the USA. Maybe things are different in Europe.

If a construction company had to bid not only on the road construction, but also had to provide maintenance and repairs for the next 30 years, maybe things would get built better.

Matt