Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards

Chris I can see where your coming from, but its like the thread a while ago where a chap sold his lister D and then was unhappy that the guy stripped it and sold it off in lots, the point is once it's sold the new owner they can do what ever they like with it. I'm sure it would make you cry to see how many Victorian fire places and ranges where smashed to bits years ago, but now there like rocking horse muck to find. but hey ho that life.

Rob

A scrap dealer is there to make money from scrap. However much the scrap is worth, I bet the machine representing that scrap is worth more to someone as a going concern, especially (speak in hushed tones lest they hear us) daft buggers like us who value oily, worn out machines as more than the sum of their parts.

What's a Lister A weigh? And that is worth what as mixed scrap? How much would you pay for it in poor but restorable condition?

As ever, it is communication that is the key. Mr S. Man needs to know that there is someone just five minutes away who is keen to be parted from their cash in order to scamper off delightedly clutching a rusty iron thingy to his chest! It is just finding them ...........

regards,

Kim Siddorn

Not quite the same thing, as I imagine most people looking for old cast fireplaces etc, are looking to use them, rather than keep them simply as collectors items.

Old machinery is not worth preserving simply because it's old. Providing a few good examples are preserved in museums, collections etc, I think that's enough to ensure they are not forgotten.

What I would say though, is that if individuals like the idea of owning and maybe restoring some of it for their own use, that's their prerogative. Nothing wrong with that, but just because they do feel that way, I don't think they should criticise those who regard old machinery simply as scrap metal, which IMO most of it is. Mike.

Actually, the Lister D story was a little more complicated than that. As I recall, the buyer stated that he was purchasing the engine for preservation, and also agreed to give the original owner first refusal should he decide to sell it. But then he stripped it and sold it for spares on eBay. This was a clear betrayal of trust and something that it was quite understandable that the seller was upset about.

Best wishes,

Chris

This is exactly my point.

I just get annoyed when they're in too much of a hurry or too lazy to give someone else an opportunity to buy the machine.

Best wishes,

Chris

It is if it's functional, which is my point.

Chris

You're missing 'my' point. Few people want old obsolete machines, especially if they're nearing the end of their useful life. They might still be functional, and if someone can make use of them fine, but most engineering Co's wont be interested in buying them, including the majority of m/c tool dealers, so they finish up going to the scrap man. His main business is selling scrap, so unless a potential buyer happens to spot it before it's broken up, it's gone. It's just not practical to save all old machinery, even if it is still functional, the chances are that by the time it's chucked out, it's become either uneconomic to maintain, or uncompetitive compared to a new or later machine. Mike.

"Mike G" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

*ding*

Sentiment only goes so far. When the scrap value is high, as are the transport and storage costs to _not_ scrap it, the distance the sentiment goes is radically shortened.

Ok fair point I didn't see that piece of the thread where an agreement had been made, again trust no one and you wont be disappointed :-(

Rob

Yes, but engineering companies and machine tool dealers don't make up the whole of the market, by a long way.

Best wishes,

Chris

So who's left ? Not the 0.001% of garden shed would be muckanics who then get something like this, sit on it for 20 years and then the next of kin sends it on it's way to where it should have gone in the first place.

In another thread on here a guy in Ashfield has 3 old machines we wants to break up for scrap and melt down. Now he's getting inquiries about selling them. He's had them, unused and unloved for ages and now someone else is going to transport them home to do exactly the same with.

If there was or had been a use for them they would have found a working home by now.

All my working life I have been friends or had dealings with many scrap men. In the early rose tinted glasses days [ before the bottle bottoms ] I once asked why they didn't save some of the more useful gear. The reply was they would need aircraft hangers to store it.

Last place I worked at had a costing policy of square footage. Each square foot had a value and if whatever stood on that had a lesser value than the cost it went and was replaced by something that produced more.

However don't let us stop you in your quest for preserving these things, you need to start by renting or buying a building big enough to hold all this treasure. However that's your first stumbling block when the rent come up you will have to scrap a couple of bits to pay the bill. Even scrap men have to pay council tax, business rates, insurance and environmental taxes or did you think it was all for free.

John S.

If you're thinking of the home w/shop market, they have little interest in buying serious m/c tools, and by that I mean the sort of machinery that production engineering Co's buy. Most of it is

3 phase and too heavy and bulky for the average DIYer, and yes, I do know 3 phase motors can be changed for single phase ones, but suitable single phase motors can be quite expensive. That's assuming the home w/s floor can take the weight of the machine.

Smaller bench machines like lathes drills, etc, might find their way into the domestic market, but the vast majority of machines from new to scrap are dealt with by specialist Co's. From dealer to factory, to s/h dealer or scrap merchant.

The DIY m/c tool market is not the same market at all. Whilst there might be a small overlap, most of the machines on offer are lightweight and not built to withstand the rigours of everyday use. Mike.

On 11 Jun, 19:49, snipped-for-privacy@stevenson-engineers.co.uk wrote:

=2ETotally agree with all of that John but the one thing you missed is the impact of our new type of very helpful (and green??) councils - I could think of a better name for them but that is what they call themselves. At one time you could get hold of a field and store all of these "treasures" whilst waiting for Mr 0.001% to come along dragging his wallet. Despite being in existence for all of my life and before these sort of yards became "unsightly, dangerous and unhealthy" through the late eighties and suddenly needed planning permission and various licenses and insurance/security to stop some "as***e" hurting himself when he broke in to steal something. Oh how we laughed naively when he got his first letter telling him his security dogs needed muzzles. The "evil scrap man" with the best of that type of yard round our way tried hard to protect his collection and even spent time "at her majesties pleasure" for his efforts. All in vane though as his yard is now green (ish) field that they pay "set aside=94 for. What has to be remembered these days is that we live in a "free" society - free that is to control, stop and charge and "protect" us for anything vaguely useful or productive. We of course as taxpayers contribute greatly to encourage this wonderful local authority job creation scheme. I have to assume that the majority of the population is happy to continue to do so? Please excuse my poor spelling but you will sense the passion I have for this subject =96 now where did I put that old soapbox?

Best regards

Apprentice grumpy old man

I agree entirely, what with councilors being there (Why?) unselfishly? for =A3xxxxxx pa along with a taxpayer paid pension (retire early). Pensioners have to take money from their pension to donate to the govt workers pension. Sorry I did not mean to use the word worker I mean somebody employed in the non-productive zone. They consider themselves public servants I think the taxpayers their servant. So what with them lording it over us along with HSE executive officers aiding and abetting them. Rant not completely over pressure relief valve just when off, have to build up a bigger head of steam for next rant. Regards Alan

Gentlemen

You are taking me back to the days when there were scrap dealers who lived in a caravan in a corner of an overgrown field and knew exactly which bramble bush the engine or what ever it was that you were after was lurking under. I always thought that they used to do a quick tour of the field every day before breakfast just to refresh their memory, but I suspect that with current metal prices they might have been tempted to dispose of most of their stock. After all, as Danny, my local dealer, used to say: "It's illegal not to make a profit".

Ron Robinson

From a non-scrappie point of view, that's fine, Chris, but to a scrappie it's just a living, nothing more. It all ends up in that great melting pot, so as long as he has turned over a few bob and made a profit, he doesn't care and doesn't NEED to care, it's his living.

Peter

-- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK snipped-for-privacy@prepair.co.uk