DAWN, clean to a fault.

Partly guessing as the Dawn website doesn't list the ingredients. It does however link to another site with 'typical contents', one of which is salt, & I thought it was common knowledge these things contain salt. The contents posted by 'No Vette Yet' list four different types of sodium, two of which are 2nd & 3rd in the list (after water). As these things are usually listed in order of quantity, it seems a fairly safe bet that it's pretty salty.

My '81 'vette that's been sat in a field for the last few years.

I can't figure that - it makes no sense whatsoever. But if it's on the web it must be true...

Everything - but that's due to it sitting outside in Wales for several years.

Eh? I just said I don't live on the coast.

'Some'. If 'No Vette Yet's' list of contents is in order (which would seem to be the case given water's first & colouring last), the 2nd &

3rd highest constituents of Dawn are sodium, with two different types further down the list. So sodium is the 2nd highest constituent after water.

As you say "more" baseless fears, I presume you think mine are baseless? That may be true, but it does contain salt - fact (most detergents use it as the surfactant). And salt does increase corrosion in steel & aluminium - fact.

I don't know why you're getting so defensive, especially as I haven't slated you for using it - just said that I choose not to, & stated why.

What is NaCl? Is there any in the Dawn soap, I don't think so. Salts are often grouped according to the negative ion they contain, e.g., bicarbonate or carbonate, chlorate, chloride, cyanide, fulminate, nitrate, phosphate, silicate, sulfate, or sulfide. Which one of those are in Dawn and are they corrosive? You can pay attention to novetyet but it wouldn't hurt to check what it actually does have in it and its actual affect on materials. Call it defensive if you wish but I try to deal in reality and not an old wives tale and/or hearsay.

Did any of that damage to your 81 Corvette happen because of the salt in soap? Doubtful if it had anything to do with the white growth in the crevices of the example you gave either, more like trapped moisture.

'Dawn as well as all other dishwashing detergents, removes the wax on a car ' !! -- Sal Zaino of Zaino Polish Inc.

Dont use Dawn. Use proper car wash and wax.

The second "No Vette Yet" post below does list sodium chloride as an ingredient. It also lists Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Sodium Pareth-23 Sulfate, and Sodium Cumenesulfonate, whatever the heck those are.

However, in Section XI the MSDS says while these detergents may be irritating, they are "not expected to be corrosive." It says they are expected to be emetic, so if a Corvette washed with one throws up, that's SOP.

FWIW, when necessary, mine is currently being washed with Armor All Power Wash Gel (won as a door prize at at car show) and dried with "The Absorber". Armor All's website claims it "Won't strip wax like dish soap"

AJM '93 Ruby coupe, 6 sp (both tops)

Ok, if Dawn is a wax stripper.... suppose in theory you wash your car with Dawn each time and then wax it. If the soap isn't corrosive per the MSDS, what do you think of this method (assume the water isn't hard) ?

Regardless of your answer, I don't plan to do this so feel free to shoot me down or up.

The only downside to that is more work. Other than that I see no problem.

'Ok, if Dawn is a wax stripper.... suppose in theory you wash your car with Dawn each time and then wax it. If the soap isn't corrosive per the MSDS, what do you think of this method (assume the water isn't hard) ?'

REPLY: Why wash your car with Dawn then wax it right afterward, if the next time youre going to wash it with Dawn youll be taking that wax off ??? The idea behind waxing/polishing a car, is to build up a layer of protection from the elements and to have it look shiny isnt it ? The only reason to use Dawn is to remove the wax/polish so you can paint your car if it needs it.

I'm not sure if I agree with that's the only reason. Sometimes you want to just take old wax off and start new. Of course, that doesn't justify washing with dawn and rewaxing each time unless you don't wash your car often.

I guess I agree with Dad, whatever makes you happy. I found my way, Dad found his and so forth.

Sodium Chloride aka table salt.

Yes there is, according to No Vette Yet's list of ingredients. As I said before, the Dawn site doesn't list the ingredients, but links to another site with 'common ingredients' of dishwasher detergent, one of which is salt.

There's a simple way to find out if it's a potential issue or not. If someone who's got some fills a couple of jars with water, one containing Dawn, & puts an un-plated steel nail in each, we'll have an answer in a few days.

Sodium Chloride is in Dawn & Sodium Chloride is corrosive. Therefore Dawn is *potentially* corrosive, which is all I've been saying. The other Sodiums may also be corrosive, but I don't know.

I have no idea, not knowing what previous owners did with it. The vast majority's down to it being sat outside in a damp environment for a number of years though.

Whoa.... the MSDS says that Dawn is NOT corrosive.

Besides if it were, wouldn't it be advised not to use it on some pots due to a corrosive nature ??

Actually Dad, there is but the MSDS sheet says that Dawn does not cause corrosion. And I think if it did, there would be a warning label about not washing certain type of metal pots.

I suspect their definition of corrosive is somewhat different to what we're discussing. E.g. everyone knows that water causes steel to rust, & water's the main ingredient in Dawn, therefore Dawn will make steel rust if left in contact long enough (unless it's got built-in rust inhibitors which seems highly unlikely). Any salt content will dramatically reduce the time needed for that to happen.

People generally rinse & dry their pots after washing them. They also rinse & sometimes dry their cars/motorbikes, but cars especially have lots of inaccessible areas that may retain some suds, hence the potential for corrosion. I can't believe I'm the only person who sees this as a possibility. Maybe I'm insane & should just kill myself forthwith.

Snipped for brevity only - -

Since I already know from years of use and you are guessing and listening to old wives tales, let us know how your nail test turns out.

Why would they add salt to diswashing soap in the first place?

Mainly as a surfactant I believe. Same reason you used to put salt in dishwashers before the tablets came along I guess.

Reality check, guys.

First, when you wash any car, with any type of soap, you are using a small amount. Seems like most instructions are a capful per gallon or such, so what do you have, maybe an ounce or two per gallon of water?

Second, not all of these Sodium compounds are going to be corrosive to metal. Without a chemistry background, you really don't know what they are. Only Sodium Chloride (NaCl) do you know is just plain salt. And it is usually down the list so in one ounce of soap, you have what, maybe .1 ounce or less. And you don't know what the chemical composition will be after it contacts the compounds in the dirt and grime on your car. They could all become completely harmless within a few minutes of contact for all you know.

Then you are spreading that over an entire car.

Finally, you are diluting it further with not one gallon but lots of gallons of water when you rinse with the water hose. (You do rinse, don't you?)

So your nail in a jar needs to have the 1 ounce of Dawn in a 5 gallon bucket of water and mixed thoroughly. Then scoop your Dawn/water mix from that. Then remove the nail after 20 minutes. After all, when you wash the car, do you totally immerse it in water and leave it for a few days, or is it all run across the outside and then dried?

Dropping that nail in the jar and leaving it a few days (let's say 3) is equal to 3 days x 24 hours = 72 hours / .25 hours per car wash = 288 car washes. Now if you wash once a week, that is over 5-1/2 years (5.538 years).

How many of you actually wash once a week? Maybe once every two weeks? So that is 11 years of washing to equal the nail for 3 days.

Now, here is the kicker. --- Is your car bare metal? Or is it painted.

I don't know what started this thread, but I suspect it was something like saying use Dawn or similar to wash the car initially that was found on the side of a mountain to clean of the crud off of it. I doubt there was ever any suggestion to wash the car weekly for the next 5 years with Dawn.

When you pull a car out of a nasty environment where it has been stored poorly for several years, sometimes you have to be a bit brutal in the cleanup process to achieve a goal. After all, when you paint a car, you use water and sandpaper as part of the process to get it to shine.

I doubt anyone would say using sandpaper on paint was not brutal. I doubt anyone would say using Dawn one time was anywhere as near abrasive as that.

With Preston living in Wales, I bet the salt content in the air is more than in the Dawn soap and water solution he will use on the car unless he lives up on Mount Snowdon.

I'm SURE there is more salt content in the dirt and grime you get from daily driving.

Car wash used at 1oz per gallon

Salts are not different Sodiums but different Clorides (such as Potassium Cloride)

It was started because Dad refused to belive that Dawn removes wax from cars. Then someone said they used Dawn for a well over 10 years and thier cars looked as good as new, yet they still haven't shown any photographs of said car. Then it spiraled out of control from there.

Snip

Not really the way I take it, it started because Andy and others think that the car will melt if you use Dawn to wash it as I do and then the statement was made that I was cheap. Never said it didn't take wax off, I said it takes no more off then your chamois does, remember now? Picture can't be put on this non-binary news group, plus I don't need the proof of what my car looks like, but someone else will sit on their hands and do nothing to back up what they have said.

Here's the test, as some one stated to put a nail in Dawn and see what it does. So Tom has said 3 days, is that an acceptable amount of time for the neigh-sayers? If so I have four (4) vials filled with Dawn, tap water, and two (2) other look alike liquids. In each I've put a new nail right out of its original box but spun in a drill on a belt sander to produce bare metal. Vials are labeled A, B, C, & D and when the test is over new pictures of the nails will be taken and then you can identify the one that came from Dawn and tap water. At that point I'll tell you what was in each vial. Will try to put them up on photobucket.com. Forgot the registration and seldom use it, plus it has my email so it won't let me use that email, working at it.

Melt, are you crazy? I said lots of times dont use Dawn because it removes the wax.. that's it..period, no more. Then you go on and on and on about how it doesnt, then fess up that it does... AGH.