On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 14:37:47 -0500, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
some liberal publication that ignores all the true facts
Funny, my finance charges each year are zero. Fuel costs are $9 per
100 miles, maintenance is negligible since I refuse to waste money at
a dealer, and a Honda requires virtually no maintenance, but figure $3
for that, $2 for insurance, $0 depreciation. That comes out to $14.
Now, the fare for mass transit may only be $14, but that does not
include the cost of road taxes that go to the mass transit that should
be going to our roads, nor of gasoline taxes that are misdirected, and
other taxes such as income and sales taxes that go to support Metra.
Real cost, probably in the neighborhood of $75.
Clearly, mass transit is FAR MORE EXPENSIVE than autos, and does NOT
PROVIDE service to the vast majority of people who need to be able to
get to work and the store.
The energy equivalent of 575,000 barrels of oil a day are required to
produce 10 million cars in the U.S. . [Greenpeace International (1991)
found in: "The Recycling of Automobiles: A Study of the Scope of the
"by Mike Carriere / file industry sectors automotive]
DOT (Department of Transportation [U.S.]) says the average one-way
commute is about 10 miles. To accomplish this flat, a 3000- pound car
with a single occupant uses about 65,000 BTUs of energy. It would be
roughly 3,5 times more energy-efficient to travel in a four-person
carpool; 7 times more efficient to go by bus; 35 times more efficient
to go by subway; 60 times more efficient to go by train. ["Motion
sickness" Friends of the earth. Vol. 21 No. 2 Spring 1991]
It has been estimated that between 66 and 105 gigajoules of energy are
needed to produce a motor vehicle, depending on the proportion of
recycled materials used. This is equivalent to the energy contained in
between 2000 and 3000 l of gasoline, or the amount of fuel consumed by
16000 to 26000 km of driving. [A state of the Environment Fact Sheet
No. 93-1 "Environmental implications of the automobile" Environment
Canada therein: References: Jacques, A. 1992 Canada’s greenhouse gas
emissions for 1990. Ottawa: Environment Canada, Conservation and
A comparison of energy use by transportation mode
Fuel electricity use (L/100 km)
Number of commuters
Energy use (MJ/person-km)
75 (per car)
Table A19 of the document you reference shows average HOUSEHOLD
vehicle miles to be 29000 per year - with - and this is one thing I
stated that you poo-poo'd - the RURAL mileage being 36,000, and the
urban 27,000. These are 2001 figures, published in 2005.
The forces that have raised those numbers over the last 10 years have
not diminished in the last half of those ten years. These numbers, you
need to understand are PER HOUSEHOLD - and NOT PER HOUSEHOLD WITH A
Yes, more than one vehicle per household drops the average per
vehicle, but households with no vehicle raise the average as well.
And you know the old saw - figures never lie, but liars figure.
and - there's statistics, damn statistics, and lies.
Actually, I'd EXPECT small-town heartlanders of the midwest and
southwest to have the among the lowest mileage figures (and the most
relaxed lifestyles). The high mileage would be suburbanites that commute
Again, I dont' have a dog in the fight, its just that the numbers quoted
feel awfully wrong, given that every city I travel to has traffic
reports in the morning and evening that show a LOT of cars travelling a
lot of miles to and from the 'burbs.
Individual anecdotes may be interesting but don't help with a conclusion
about driving habits overall.
With all this to-ing and fro-ing I have become almost interested in the
subject, i.e. whether North Americans really do drive more p.a. than Brits
or, indeed, other western Europeans.
Many British "secondary" (non-motorway, if that is what you mean) roads are
actually dual carriageway and pretty 'fast'. They are just not quite at
motorway standards (different and fewer access points, no small
motorbicycles or pushbikes, e.g.) for a variety of reasons.
Would Germans have a higher average mileage? More motorways, no physical
borders (except a small one with the North Sea and Baltic in the north)...
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
<clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
Ah! Back to the perrenial "mine is bigger than yours" arguement. Very
Done that myself. Actually 1800 miles in seven days with a 24ft caravan
behind. No problem.
I don't know what in Hell you think is so unique about your conditions. I
have over a 200 mile round trip to music concerts and I do them after six pm
and get back before 2am. Nothing unusual.
I travel in excess of 20,000 miles per annum in my business vehicle alone
and my wife and I also put in another 18000 miles in our private Range
Rover. Nothing unusual. I have a friend who does in excess of 50,000
business miles per year, all in the UK. That would be considered high
MOST north american roads are pretty good by world standards, but
there are more miles of bad roads in North America than all the roads
put together in most countries of the world, due to the overwelming
number of miles of road involved. Many "urban" light trucks do not
carry ANY load - but that is pretty well made up for by those who
habitually overload them by magnitudes of 4 or 5, and occaisionaly 8
or 10. In our area, it is NOTHING to see a 1/2 ton truck loaded with 2
tons. - just like it's nothing to see pickups that have NEVER carried
as much as 500 lbs in the box. (but some have over 700 lbs just on the
I'm sure if you think about it for half a minute, you can come up with
some concrete and quantifiable ways in which Americans are harder on
vehicles than are owners in other parts of the world. I know I can.
The old L200 MitsuShitty was sold here as a Dodge D50 - a half ton
truck in America.
Well, virtuall the same Mazda/Ranger is sold here as a half ton by
both Mazda and Ford..
MOST Hilux are sold as 1/2 ton trucks, although the frame is the same
on the 1 ton. Yes, the Hilux is sold as a 1 ton - but not NEARLY all
of them. We used to have Hilux 1/2 and one ton pickups, as well as 1
ton commercial cab and chassis when we imported them from Japan. Our
Tacoma is American built, and not available as a 1 ton - as MOST
american users require a larger truck when they want a 1 ton capacity.
In North America we have the Toyota Tacoma 1/2 ton, and a few 3/4 ton
versions,(875-1640 lb payload) as well as the honking big Tundra.
(1455 to 2025 lb payload capacity - including passengers on the
Tundra.) It will tow 6500 lbs though.
Can you drive at that speed for say, 14 hours without stopping in
Limey land, or anywhere else in Europe? Get on the Interstate on the
east coast and drive to the Pacific coast in 4 days, or less with 2
drivers. Then turn around and drive back, with no repairs. Or drive
from Northern Ontario to Key West Florida without stopping except for
gas, food, and washroom breaks, and virtually NEVER be under 65 MPH?
I remember driving from Kitchener Ontario to Murray River PEI in 18
hours, non-stop in a '53 Dodge.That included the ferry crossing at
Tormentine. Do the math. There was no loafing.
Yes, some Euro cars will do it - and in some you may even be
relatively comfortable.The old Rover 2000TC comes to mind. A 2.5
Mondeo would fit the bill too, if there were only 2 adults.
But take a big American Chevy and wind it through the hedge-rows of
old Limey ---- Not a chance.
Differnt ponies for different tracks.
Yup - I've driven those roads.
But 200,000 miles can easily be put on a car in 3 years in parts of
Canada and the USA.
The Heavy Half Hilux and the Toyota one ton pickups in the eighties
easily handled 2-3 tons, and lasted better than the Chevy pickups of
the same period.My dad used both in his contracting business, and the
Toyota didn't take a back seat to Chevy OR Ford at the time.
And we didn't get the Stout or the Dyna. What they would handle with
a puny little 4 cyl engine was unbelievable. The L series and B series
diesels, particularly the Turbo L, were almost unstoppable, and even
the 3R, 5R, 6R, 8R and 20R gas engines lasted incredibly well.
Untill we load 2 face cords of hardwood on 'em. Then you se 'em
I am entertained by the idea that driving conditions in the USA are tougher
than in the Third World... and that inter-regional variation within the US
is so great. Oh man, you should get out more. (Yes, I know California
isn't Arizona isn't Vermont weatherwise, but still.)
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
"Max Dodge" < firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote in message
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.