Like it or not, each region has its own design
Yeah right! I weigh 300lbs and have never had a problem. I have never even
heard of problems with cars due to weight of cargo although I do know of one
Ford Mondeo that has settled on its springs a bit after 200,000 miles. A new
set of springs would see it back as new.
Part of that is because we drive longer distances,
So you are saying now that it is easier on the car in the States. Certainly
long distances are infinitely easier than the narrow twisty lanes we have in
Europe although our freeways generally have average speeds of 80mph or so.
Another factor in those distances is the fact that
Still easier on a car. In Africa half the distances would be on unmetalled
roads and similarly in India and Pakistan. Have you watched the news and
seen what driving conditions are like there?
Add to this that our fuel has
I fail to see how driving a lot is relevant except that you do fewer cold
starts per mile. 200,000 miles is the same distance wherever you are.
I have yet to see a pick up truck from Japan deal with the
Half ton eh? I don't think there are many pick-ups sold in Europe with a
payload of less than a ton but there you go. Most of your pick-ups seem to
carry not a lot more than fishing tackle.
Yes, you find it funny, I find it sad. In general, an Asian designed vehicle
will last maybe five years without major needs. Used to be that inside of
three years, an Asian made vehicle would rust badly, which is to say, holes
through the metal. Perhaps now that they are built here, that is solved.
European vehicles fare a bit better, but by seven years, can become
cantankerous if not costly to maintain due to nickel and dime stuff that
costs ten times as much because its Euro design.
Well, then you must be fairly ignorant on load capacity of vehicles.
No, long distances are not easier. Quite the opposite, they create another
type of hazard to longevity, that of heat and wear. Thus our larger engines
tend to do better than the smaller engines from elsewhere. Your freeways are
driven at like speeds to ours. This is not to say that our vehicles are
better or worse than any other, simply that design follows use. Thus, cars
designed in the country where the designer uses them, will fare better in
Have you seen where we drive here? I guarantee imports won't survive the
same type of road here in the states. I know, because we've done our share
of driving "other" stuff, and it just doesn't do as well as american iron
when it comes to rough roads. I see far more 1980's Chrysler 2.2 powered
stuff than I do any other maker's 1980's vintage stuff. A rough second place
would be Chevy Cavaliers. The only other that would place would be the
Toyota 22R engine, mostly in Celicas. However, lately those are rare too.
Too bad, I actually liked those.
You cast aside how many vehicles it takes to go that distance, let alone
which ones actually make it that far.
I don't think there are many pickups sold in Europe, but feel free to cite
proven statistics. In the States, a pickup isn't built above the one ton
level. I'll bet its the same in Europe.
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
That is at variance to what I hear on the mainly right wing American posters
on alt.autos.toyota where there is only one decenting voice to the
overwhelming majority who believe both Toyota and Honda are leagues ahead in
reliability and longevity compared with domestic cars.
Rust has been a thing of the past on Japanese built vehicles that have been
imported here in the last 15 years. There was a time in the 1970's that they
developed bodywork holes you could put your fist through within five years.
That is historical and not representative of recent products.
European vehicles fare a bit better, but
Mass sellers always have cheaper parts. If European cars sold in enough
numbers the parts prices would reduce in the same way that seldom needed
Japanese parts have.
I am aware that huge American vehicles have a very low payload in relation
to their size and weight compared to European vehicles but that is only a
symptom of poor design by the big American manufacturers. Could it be that
some of their problems and decreasing market share is related to poor and
Toyota is going to overtake GM this year in volume terms. In profitability
it has overtaken GM long ago and customer retention is very high, which is a
prerecuisite of increasing sales.
You are ignorant of wear factors affecting automobiles. A car reaches its
operating temperature and wear is minimised.
Tell that to the owners of Toyota and all the other Japanese vehicles who
consistently lead reliability and longevity ratings all over the World.
Is that so? A whole lot of your country has a55mpg limit while ours is an
universally ignored 70mph. Italy is inhabited by looney drivers and Germany
has no speed limits on some roads. I know of one owner of a British built
McLaren there who regularly drives at over 200mph on his commute.
Here in the UK speeds are generally kept down to 90mph or so because the
driving license is lost if speeds exceed 100.
Heard it all before about various cars trucks plant machinery and everything
and it is bollocks. Japanese and exotic European cars would not be so
successful in America if this were true. Fact is the big American barges and
smaller cars that just don't drive as well as Japanese and European cars are
like dinasaurs, out of time. This is the reason Ford and GM are in such a
Actually very many cars make it that far. At least European and Japanese
cars do. I have a Mitsubishi Shogun that has 165000 miles on it that has
towed highly illegal loads far higher than it was designed for that is only
now slipping its first clutch. My Toyota is just on 100,000 miles in eight
years and it has only needed bulbs [two brake lights] and a rear wheel
bearing so far. Even the exhaust is like new. A friends Audi Allroad which
was serviced every 20,000 miles if it was lucky crossed 200,000 miles and it
is still running somewhere probably.
Your assertion that conditions are harder on cars in the USA is just
nonsense as anyone who has travelled extensively will know for certain.
Conditions are only really worse where roads are not metalled and where it
freezes really hard for long periods. These things cause increased wear not
your ridiculous assertion that long distance running causes it, which is
laughable if it were not so sad in that you actually believe that you know
your ass from your elbow.
There are huge numbers of pickups sold in Europe though a lower proportion
of total vehicles than in America. Very few have a payload of less than one
ton. The market for half ton payload trucks is almost non existant. OTOH
very few pickups have more than a 1.5 ton payload and most then buy 7.5 ton
gross forward control trucks which are driven without a special driving
Remember the FORDS of the same vintage?? A friend's 3 year old Montego
had the seat mounts rust/pull right out of the floor in 3 years. And
Torinos that the mirrors fell off, complete with a large patch of
metal in 2 years, or the door handles fell out, and there was nothing
left to fasten them to???????
And Pintos that rusted through the firewall where the inner fenders
Wasn't just the Japs and Brits and Fiats that rusted away in no time
back then.But they did seem to rust faster for a longer period of
time. They were not designed to handle the salt on the roads in
I DO like American iron in many ways, but dollar for dollar I'll take
a Toyota, or a Honda over most of what "America" has to offer
today.And most of them will be built closer to my home than most of
the socalled "American" models.
If I want a BIG car, I'd buy a DC product made in Brampton. Or
possibly a Crown Vic from Tilbury. If I want a small car, a Corolla
from Cambridge or a Honda from Alliston. For a small sport Ute, I'd
consider the new (mostly Suzuki based) stuff coming out of CAMI down
at Ingersol with the GM badge, or the Matrix from Cambridge. But
right now I'm not in the market - the "Mercury Mistake" clone of the
Mondeo only has a bit over 100,000km on it at 10 years of age, and
will likely last the wife another 5 years - and it doesn't get much
long highway driving.
The 12 year old Trans Sport has 333,000 plus KM on it and will likely
do me for another few years too unless a deal comes up that is "too
good to pass up". Regardless, my next car will be another used one -
whatever seams to stand up reasonably well and is cheap.
But bigger engines, not worked as hard, tend not to overheat as
easily. A lot of the smaller "american" and european engines do suffer
from heat on long hard runs. Even some of the Jap stuff has problems
with "coking" and sticking rings, as well as lubrication breakdown
(running that thin 5W20 oil). Lots of head gasket and intake manifold
problems, even on some "american" engines due to heat (and poor
design) With the "world market" lots of our "American" engines are
euro, asian, south American, or Aussi in design. And lots of our
"American" small cars are asian designed , and even asian built
(Daewoo is GM in Korea - and sold here with a "bow tie")
Lots of these problems show up here, while the cars are the model of
reliability in europe and elsewhere. Our conditions CAN be severe.
They ARE different than most of the rest of the world.
Get over it.
And if you drive down the 401 (major highway across Ontario) at less
than 130Kph you almost get pushed off the road. Talk about a
"universally ignored" speed limit.
I've personally shot across large expanses of the American Mid-West at
well over 100MPH (160KPH), and it didn't take an $80,000 dollar car to
Agreed. Yet DC is building big American Barges and making money doing
it. Ford and GM can't seem to build decent small cars, except for
their euro/asian influenced/designed stuff. Chrysler has had a
reputation for not standing up too well over time, mostly little stuff
like shedding cheap trim etc - but the old "K" cars just don't quit.
Lately GM can't seem to fix ANY of their design problems - the 3.8
problems continued for years, and now the 3.4s as well.
Huge amounts of salt being spread on British roads as well.
I think it was the high price of steel at that time that made it attractive
to recycle scrap iron which resulted in poor quality bodies. I hope
standards are kept high today as the price of steel over the past twelve
months has been just as high historically speaking.
American models apart from Jeep have never sold well in Europe. In the UK
Chrysler is now marketting their rather nice looking 300C and might well
sell it well. The specification, looks and the drive is good and the
availability of the superb V6 diesel engine [Which NA and Canada might not
get] is a big plus point.
From your email address I thought *you* were the wife. LOL
Surely not in Canada.
Many posters on the Toyota and Honda group from Florida and all over the
USA. Never heard of an issue with overheating. Big engines are just as prone
to overheat as it is just a symptom of an inadequate or defective cooling
system, nothing more.
Even some of the Jap stuff has problems
Well there you go.
With the "world market" lots of our "American" engines are
They have a lot of heat in those countries.
Daewoo is now rebranded as Chevrolet in most of Europe today. LOL
My friends in Canada have no problem with Summer heat but do mention Winter
No it doesn't. Almost any small family car can cruise indeffinately at over
There's more money to be made from big cars and the consumer is a fickle
creature. One minute he wants big cars and bigger SUV's then when the
inevitable fuel price increase occurs he wants to downsize. The car
manufacturers cannot win in that situation unless they mainly target smaller
car markets to start with.
Ford and GM can't seem to build decent small cars, except for
The Ford Focus and Mondeo they produce over here are really top class cars.
They have given up trying to sell Ford brand cars any bigger and they have
bought premium brands to fill this sector.
Chrysler has had a
Their European cars are OK and that's it. A few Corsa are sold to private
owners but most Astra and Vectra go to fleets. Their drivetrains are pretty
good but apart from one or two models they are not 'desireable' cars. Their
latest diesel engines are built to Fiat design.
They have finally figured out how to re-smelt steel instead of just
heating it up and re-rolling it, which , from the results, appears to
be about all they did in the seventies.
Todays quality steels can contain large proportions of remelted scrap.
You really need to get out !
In Asia ppl can't afford to replace cars willy-nilly. I'd expect some of the
cars on Indian roads easily to be 20 yrs old. They don't rust that much over
As for the roads - well until you've driven through a few Indian pot-holes you
haven't experienced how bad roads can really be.
Heh. Thanks to PA roads, I've got three slightly bent wheels, and the
fourth is only unbent because of http://www.wheelcollision.com . But
Costa Rica's roads makes Pennsylvania's roads look smooth, and I doubt
India's are much better.
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
Try west African roads - paved roads with potholes big enough for a
pig to dissapear into. Make that 2 pigs. 2 BIG pigs
Or east african roads where you could lose a VW beatle in the rainy
Pensylvania highways are BAD, but not that bad.
My last UK Vauxhall Cavalier lasted 180,000 miles and 16 yrs without any major
parts replacement at all. Original clutch AFAIK too.
You're daft if you think maintenance is expensive because of 'Euro' design too.
Parts travel both ways. The parts for the US built X5 and Mclass I owned
were no different to German built models. Parts for Japanese built vehicles
are no more expensive then British built Japanese brands.
Transport cost is trivial from the US to Europe and vise-versa. A container
will contain many thousands of parts but will cost about $1500 to ship from
store to store which is likely to be less than a Dollar an item. In fact the
manufacturer will charge a percentage for transport so that a filter will
have maybe 10C transport while a $100 part will have maybe $2 added.
They sure do, and when they do, the price for them goes up. The point wasn't
that the parts had to travel, but that shipping them added to their total
cost. Unlike your examples, parts for foreign makes here in the states cost
much more (not just a dollar or two) than similar parts for domestic.
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
I have followed your ping-pong with Pooh Bear but I am not clear about the
relevance of an Atlantic Crossing. Last time I did it it took no more than
And it took only 11 h to cross that ocean and even cross the American
continent to get to LA. It even takes up to an hour less going the other
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
"Max Dodge" < firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote in message
Parts don't go quite as fast, nor do they get here at no cost. Hence the
fact that they cost more once here. It has been supposed that the difference
is only a dollar or two, but in a capitalist economy, the seller can sell at
the price of his choice, so long as he is the lowest price (only?) and a
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
grunt grunt guffaw!
now my nose is cleared, bull shit!
1/4-1/2 ton pickups in town regularly move people, carry construction
supplies, are used for small businesses and often have better mileage than
cars. 3/4-1 ton frequently tow boats, trailers carrying 4x4's, skidoos,
in the rural areas, only poor locals do not have at least one truck,
regardless of age -- if we didn't have them, we would lose our suspension in
a hurry, and would pay a fortune to have wood delivered, not to mention
loading the box with propane tanks, maybe oxygen and acetelyne tanks, gas
containers for gasoline, chain saw oil, diesel, and groceries, since a trip
to town can be expensive so it's not done frequently, not to mention dog
food -- 80 kg a month for most large dogs of which two is a good idea for
need i mention that most people who drive trucks are very handy? they can
usually build their own decks, fences, sheds, patch their roofs, fix most
things, have automobile basic skills, if not outright specialists in at
least one of framing, foundations, general construction, electricity,
plumbing (installing septic systems, wells, sump pumps, holding tanks,
systerns, underground lines to the outbuildings), fixing heavy machinery,
logging, milling, farming, automotive, welding, hydraulics (for homemade
wood splitters etc.,) small motor repairs ... the list goes on. how could we
do all this without a pickup?
most of us lead very busy lives (thread about work hours as compared to many
countries) whether urban or rural and welcome is the day when the bed only
contains fishing tackle, tent, camping supplies and clothing and maybe a
shot gun or two!
All your writing does not change the fact that 1/2 ton trucks are not common
in Europe and that 1 ton payloads are almost universal. The 1 ton trucks are
very much smaller than yours though and are typified by the Toyota Hi-lux.
I misunderstood Huw. I thought the point you were making was that little
trucks are not common in europe, but in north america 1/2 tons are very
common but typically only carry fishing tackle.
I was explaining that 1/2 ton truck owners here USE their trucks to WORK.
(and most of us need an 8' box)
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:35:31 -0500, "Rachel Easson"
Maybe in your town, but the overwhelming majority of truck owners DO
NOT utilize them 90% of the time.
Excepting the asshole trolls like LBMHB, most people have no issue
with tradesmen using trucks.
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