OT-Tolerance

And you CAN.

Reply to
clare at snyder.on.ca
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There is no such thing as a "christian nation", and the "moral life" im most ways follows the "christian values", whether that is YOUR reasoning or not. If you accept the values, why the hangup about "religion". Christianity is not a religion in the first place - it is a way of life and a relationship to god. A religion is man reaching for God. Christianity is God reached down to man.

Reply to
clare at snyder.on.ca

how sad.

Reply to
theguy

Budd goes well beyond saying he disagrees with others beliefs. He has zero respect for anyone with differing views and thinks everyone is against him.

Reply to
miles

I agree with you. Really, I do!

Reply to
Bryan

Suddenly, without warning, clare at snyder.on.ca exclaimed (12-Nov-06

10:18 AM):

Yes, I am aware of that. But Christianity doesn't have some sort of monopoly on moral values. They were around long before Christianity or even Jesus Christ. Other religions include these values in their tenets as well.

A person isn't automatically a Christian because they believe in a God and have a decent moral code. I've even known extremely moral people who are atheists. So you don't even have to believe in a God to lead a moral life.

jmc

Reply to
jmc

I believe that since much of the Bible is symbolic, there is no such thing as the "literal interpretation". Actually, since literal isn't interprted, and interpreting something isn't literal, you can't have one of them.

Which version is correct? American Standard, New International, King James, Revised King James, or some other version? They can't all be right.

As a Mormon, I believe that the Book of Mormon is scripture, also. So, I don't agree with your biblical inerrancy.

Yes, I'm tolerant of you. Believe what you want. When it's all said and done I'll come down and visit you once in awhile.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I don't think he posts crap for the most part. Has good info on "the old Dodges" and seems to have been of help to some coming here in the past.

Seems everyone of the regulars here have some sort of non-relevant topic they like to bring up time and time again, even if only as jokes (Wabbits and leather seats come to mind).

The religious stuff seems to be a recent addition to Budd's contributions here. Has he seen God? Been close to the "other side" after yet another body part failure?

Don't know, but it doesn't really get me too riled. Given the amount of back-biting that has always been a part of this group, seems some religious proselytizing shouldn't be too hard to put up with given some of the other discussions zinging back and forth around here in the past!

SMH

Reply to
Stephen Harding

So much of religion is interpretation.

My interpretation of "ask forgiveness" is to *do something about* those acts that may require forgiveness.

It's not good enough to simply say, "I'm sorry". You have to do something about it. If you're an axe murderer, you need to stop murdering and take steps in order to redeem yourself. That effort is supposed to be what gains your forgiveness.

I think this is one of the main differences between religion and modern secularism that determines morality more as "social responsibly".

A Godless society can get away passing the buck claiming one's axe murdering tendencies are due to a father that didn't love one enough or because one grew up in a poverty, crime ridden neighborhood.

Religion says *you* are at fault and redemption means *you* have to do something about your condition to make it right.

At least that's my take on the meaning of forgiveness and redemption!

SMH

Reply to
Stephen Harding

Religous/moral beliefs always seem to end up in two extreme and opposite forms of action.

At one extreme, dealing with say a bona fide Nazi: "I personally don't belief in your position that the Jews are the cause of all the worlds problems and belong in extermination camps, but that's just my opinion and you're perfectly free to believe and act on those beliefs as long as you don't negatively impact me".

At the other extreme we have current radical Islam, or pretty much the same thing a few hundreds of years ago via Christianity (e.g. Crusades, Protestant-Catholic wars, etc., etc.): "God demands I do something about the immoral infidel, so I cut off your head. God is Great!"

It's not always easy to find that balance of action that true following of a belief system demands. Too much action and you become a dangerous zealot, with not enough, you become nothing more than a shill.

SMH

Reply to
Stephen Harding

Don't know if he still does but one group had a thread entitled "Budds rant's"

Agreed.

Jokes and one liners are the norm here.

To compare that to the stuff that Budd has been posting is a hell of a stretch. Have to as have you read his stuff over the past month?

Don't know, don't care. Everybody has issues at one time or another. Most deal with them and move on. None has come to the level of behavior that he has.

Some that is well intended. But the crap and the manner of his recent post's are nothing but BS and trolling. Doing so, one should expect the response recieved thus far.

Bottom line imho, is that his family hopefully reads his post's and take's him to the doc to get his med's balanced or changed.

Roy

Reply to
Roy

Well said. Now compare your post to Budd's post's and tell me they are in the same vein.

Roy

Reply to
Roy

My beliefs, for the most part, can be be proven; Christianity can't be proven and is strictly based on faith. If you want to live by the tenets of a religion I will gladly "tolerate" that practice but when you want to interject your beliefs into government I will object.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Like many believers you believe that values can only come from religion; again, you're wrong. There are concepts of right and wrong that are universal and transcend religion.

Never said otherwise. Some of your so called "Christian values" are universal.

The fact that several religions are based on the Old Testament adds no credibility to the beliefs. For most of civilized history people believed the Earth was flat; they were wrong, and it's quite possible that believers in the god of Abraham are also wrong and number among the members of the thousands of religions that have existed since the beginning of recorded history.

Your last statement makes a lot of assumptions. You falsely ASSume that all of those who deny God, Jesus Christ and christianity deny the existence of a higher power. Before you accuse me of playing word games by distinguishing between God and a higher power, be aware that they are not necessarily the same thing. For all any of us know, that higher power might be a non-entity.

Reply to
John Kunkel

Not the point. Why does everybody get bent out of shape because someone talks about "christian values" if they espouse the same values themselves? Not saying you do, but MANY do. It is because they don't want to admit there may be a god, and that he MIGHT be relevant today, and that perhaps they MAY be wrong????? Forget that the values preceded Christianity by something like 4000? years, they did not precede God.

Anyway, enough of this.

Reply to
clare at snyder.on.ca

Your beliefs can be proven? Prove that the inherent universal concepts of right and wrong are NOT instilled by the allmighty. Prove that the old testament is wrong. Prove that Christ was not the son of God, and that he did not die to absolve all who believe of the guilt of their sins.

I'd say you are taking AT LEAST as much on faith as the Christian is. The new testament is one of the most historically correct and provable peices of ancient literature known to man today. The more secular (non-religous) scholars and investigators dig into it, trying to find fault, the more they find can be historically proven or substantiated by the other known and accepted historical records.

Even the old testament, which was handed down for centuries only as an oral tradition, has been found to be extremely accurate in many instances.

If both the old and new testament were not the underpinnings of a/several religons they would still be valuable as historic records, works of ancient literature and philosophy. ( in other words, they are not "good fiction".

Reply to
clare at snyder.on.ca

thank you.

Reply to
theguy

Do you believe that what Budd has been doing is merely espouseing values?????

If so we are not reading the same post's

Yup, your right.

Reply to
Roy

You're asking for proof AGAINST your beliefs in an attempt to prove them right. My neighbors 4 year old has an invisible friend she 'plays' with. Since nobody can prove this invisible friend doesn't exist it therefore must per your logic?

Nobody is attempting to prove you wrong. They are your beliefs. It is when you attempt to impose your beliefs onto others that the tolerance stops. Keep your beliefs where they belong...with you.

Reply to
miles

There have been numerous God(s) throughout the worlds history. Many of those religions lasted far longer than the rather young Christianity. Did these God(s) of these long lost cultures exist? They vanished when these cultures vanished and new religions began. Each new culture brings with it a new religion claiming it is the only correct one. It's possible in another 1000 years some new religion, culture and God(s) will be created just as has happened in our history.

Reply to
miles

I'm more a lurker these days with large periods of time between reads, so I haven't been bombarded by Budd's stuff, but I do see what he writes and was a bit curious why he suddenly has become such a zealot. I never recall him being that way before his "second coming" (or is it his third or fourth?).

In general, I'm fairly tolerant of wide ranges of opinion but when it does reach aggravation levels, I just bail out of thread.

Newgroup postings aren't worth getting all worked up over!

Starting to think of a big snow year for your plowing?

My sister works for a ski chain merchandiser and is already praying for a big snow year all over the country! If she had her way, it would be snowing already in Florida!

I figure you plow guys probably aren't much different!

SMH

Reply to
Stephen Harding

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