Let me get this straight you claim my post "go argue with somebody else"
was a indication that I was superior to you and was trying to restrict who
you reply to. Now after more warped but convienent thinking you also found
that "go argue with somebody else" was "demeaning and insulting"
All I have to say is WOW!!
Although Budd it is you usual MO, gotta have a excuse, any excuse.
That was polite, should I have said "please go argue with somebody else" ?
No matter, you needed the excuse. See Budd it fits your pattern.
How do you think I knew that? It is your pattern You were pissed off in the
other thread so ya waited to jump in here. I still say ya look pretty
foolish but you should be use to that. Try to have some dignity will ya.
LOL ? You have been tying to justify your BS for some time. The pattern is
showing. True to form.
You knew exactly what it was but you were so hot to jump in. You are
grasping at anything to validate your BS.
Don't ya see it yet Budd you are reaching sooo hard to justify yor remarks
it would be laughable were it not so pathetic.
Sure I do the railroad industry is a closed shop. Actually you don't have to
join, you pay a reduced fee of some sort. But you do recieve all the
benifits and stuff just like you paid dues as a member.
Okay, so you could have worked there but didn't want to join a union. You
made a choice and didn't work there. So you live by your choice and went to
work elsewhere. Great, good for you. You made your choice, apparantly it was
a poor one, but YOU made it. Accept the fact that YOU made the choice and
stop blameing a union. But no, your Budd and it is NEVER YOUR FAULT. Some
things never change.
The fact is you could have worked there but decided you didn't want to. Stop
complaining about it, you made the choice.
Ooops I missed this. In support my wallet? Oh, does this come from the other
thread where you advocated union workers take a pay cut? Your damn right
I'll bitch about it. Further, I said that if pay cuts were to be asked
everybody should give up a percentage, even you.
Oh, I won't killfile you. Others have dealt with you and have sorta backed
away given your age and alleged medical condition. I'm older than you and
have medical issues too. So, I figure that we are on a even field. You know
I won't back away.
Gee Budd what was that movie Grouchy Old Men....
I didn't insult your current health. I said that you are continually
mentioning it while others just move on. Now you use it as a excuse for you
behavior. Be advised that I am going to use all my medical issues and my age
as a excuse when dealing with you. Hell, fair is fair, right?
You were asked years ago. Now they have become your mantra and excuse. My
comments were about you not your medical condition.
Good, you should get out more.
Never claimed to, just voiced my opinion as you do.
Ya you do. 'Cause you know that it was bullshit.
Not reading minds, just a prediction based on your past history.
Of course not.
Good, and you've read mine in response.
Here it is again. Blame somebody! Hell blame me for all your problems real
and percieved. But whatever you do NEVER accept any responsibility for your
Here it is again. Now your medical condition is a excuse. Stop trying to
elicit sympathy and take responsibility for what you say and do. I know it
must be hard but try.
Why not answer the question??
Those are your words Budd not mine. But I guess to buttress you position you
can make believe they are mine. Is that how you see yourself ? Is that why
you are so angry and bitter? If so please seek some help, it will do you a
world of good.
Stuff it?? How crass of you Budd.
Hell Budd you gotta blame somebody, it is your pattern. Blame me, it matters
The word you left out is "Yet". No tantrum yet, it is on it's way though.
You already have it in your head that this is all my fault. That is fine.
Where it goes from here depends on if, and what you write.
As always if ya want to play, be prepared. Not a threat or anything just the
way it is. I've become a grouchy old man. It is the meds and my age. I can
screw around for a bit, but snow is on it's way and I'll have to get going.
Don't want you to think I'm rude and ignoring you, just the way it is.
Remember "go argue with somebody else"
Oh, btw, Roy, just one final comment about my health issues.
You keep mentioning my supposed "whining" abut my health. Remember that not
a single person in the group had said a thing in that regard until someone,
in a fit of hatred, made the claim. All you've done is support that hatred
and that bias.
Okay. I ended it last night, ya had your last. I snipped about the entire
thread and said "Good night". But no, that isn't good enough for you. You
want to keep on going? Pull those straps tight!
Budd I don't remember anybody mentioning your health in any way other than
you. Regardless, I am sick of hearing about it. Useing health issues as a
excuse for behavior as you have in this thread is or to elict sympathy is
repugnet imo. There is no hatred involved just a opinon.
I gotta get back in the truck Budd, there is a blizzard going on here. I'll
be back to play with ya later tonight or sometime Monday if you want to
continue. If you decide we continue we might as well use the whole thread,
there was a bunch I probably should have replied to but didn't. Up to you.
really, fwiw, the world can only live well when there is balance. as
far as unions, they give balance to workers rights. as far as
management, they give balance to workers wants. they really are a
ying and yang to one another. neither proves too successful when the
other is too strong.
unions are not dinosaurs. they are not gone. they are just being
squeezed by a global economic trend. they will adjust. unions will
rise in other nations, in other countries..........as management gets
too strong and forgets the relationship that it must maintain with the
people that do the labor.
They can in some situations. In others unions have gotten way to big
and powerfull and destroyed otherwise good companies. They have hurt
industries by subsidizing union contractors such that they can bid below
cost to shove out anyone else. Thats just plain wrong and is not
benificial to society as a whole.
Oh yea, it was always the unions, never greedy corporate execs that made bad
I don't even think that is legal but since you seem to think that it happens
sp often, lets see some examples and don't give me your typical "do the
research" crap. You made the claim, now lets see some examples. Funny how
you don't seem to complain when big companies like Wallmart and M$ sell
below cost or give things away for the very same purpose.
But it happens on both sides. How come you never seem to see that?
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
Too funny TBone!! I say they can in some situations and you retort by
saying ALWAYS the unions. When is it ever the greedy unions huh? Oh
ya, you said 1% of the time. LOL sure.
It is legal TBone. Unions write checks to member corporations so they
can outbid the non-union contractors. It's very legal and its happened
to my families own businesses. Backfired though. The union couldn't
keep writing checks forever in order to win all jobs. Your love affair
with unions is a direct result of you having zero experience or
knowledge from a corporate perspective of the damage unions do.
Really, name one. All I hear from you is the big bad unions, never that
managemnet dropped the ball.
Either you have the biggest family in the world, or you are full of shit.
Every time I ask you to back something up, you come up with this family crap
yet never actually give a name. What is the name of the business and what
union attacked them. Since this should all be public record, I'm not asking
for anything private.
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
ROFL!! You try to tell me it's illegal for unions to subsidize
individual contractors so they can outbid non-union companies. You
haven't a clue at all to come up with that statement. It's just your
personal belief with zilch to support it and yet again you try to tell
me you must be right if I don't name a company other than my families.
Sorry TBone, you're wrong. It is legal and is done on a routine basis.
Prove your statement true. Show me some law that says unions can't
bankroll companies to outbid non-union companies. Back your claim up.
i second what roy said. but keep in mind that it isn't just the
headlines where this is an important issue. in my opinion it is
behind the headlines where this union/management issue takes on its
most important facet. it is in the lives of individual people that i
am the most concerned about. as i get older, i have spent some time
thinking about values and what i would like to be remembered for.
about what is really important in life. while making money and having
toys is important and i like money and toys, it isn't the most
important thing and it isn't what i want to be remembered for.
fairness with my relationships toward people is much more important.
how we interact in the business world with people and how we treat
them is really bigger than anything else. that is a legacy that you
will leave and the real struggle in america is on the individual
level. i believe in capitalism and wish you well in all your
pursuits, but all things come into conflict and only when you know
your priorities can you act in concert with them. when the right to
make big sums of money comes at the expense of the workers rights to
have a secure and fair work place, the latter wins in my book. look,
i have been on both sides of the fence. management rights at this
point in time are at a high in the post war economy. i see it every
day. there are alot of managers in the private and public sector
that see employees only as a means to an end, their end. without
unions, there is very little job or discipline protection. period.
the law does not currently support the worker. now the worker can
just turn the other cheek and take it or they can do something to even
the playing field. the unions are that avenue. yes, the unions go
too far sometimes but so does management.
the point that you just can not grasp is that you and the workers have
to have a relationship for your business to work. if the workers
chose to do that through a union, that it their right. pure and
simple. in that case, if you want to have a good business that is
ethical, fair to workers and successful in business, you have to have
a relationship with the union. period. you have to try to understand
what the union represents and why it is of importance. that means
that you have to do two action things: you have to listen and you
have to try to empathize. i mean listen as in listening to the
message, not just listening as you do here so you can build an
argument against what is said, but actually listen. empathy is that
this thread just kills me. you want to rail about unions because of
thier exccesses, but that is stupid. it just opens you up to the same
philosophy. we can rail (probably to greater degree) about mgt
excesses. you trivialize what the unions represents. as long as you
do that you will never ever really be able to dig beyond the headlines
and get to some creative solutions.
Let's face it, there have been some union's or locals, that have been
horrible. What I don't understand is why the members have not voted them off
the property or de certified them.
I also think in the past 30 years the unions that did run amok have been
curtailed quite a bit.
i think you are right. i am certainly not trying to give the
impression that unions are blameless. just the opposite, my point is
the unions are here and management is here and the whole blame game is
pointless. it centers on the past and we need to live in the future.
unions have a legitimate purpose and so does management.
anyway, i agree with what you have posted here about this.
on another subject, how is the snow? you are probably tired of it,
but out here we are getting a big blast of arctic air and are pissed
because the moisture does not seem to be developing to give us snow.
i will hope for a little snow to play in this weekend.
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