Another sad state

I suppose there's a disconnect between the goals of a multi-brand dealer and the goals of FoMoCo but it would seem to me that you should be able to sell some Fusions by stocking up on a few ToyOnda CamCords to bring in people who are interested in a CamCord and then selling them a brand-new Fusion instead.

If the Fusion's the world-beater that Ford would like us to think it is, a test drive and the opportunity to buy a new one for the same price as an n year old CamCord should be a winning strategy.

While I tend to think your suggested strategy makes sense, why wouldn't Leith send ALL the Brand X vehicles to the Brand X lot? Do they keep only the undesireable Brand Y's on the Brand X lot? Would Brand Y on the Brand X lot be, as I suggested, "bait?" And a Brand X on a Brand X lot sells for the best price?

I don't think this would work. It might work if you had dual new car dealerships on the same site, but then the dealer is going to try and the sell the vehicle that makes him the most money. From what I have seen, dealership make more money on good quality used cars traded-in than on new cars. I usually don't try to trade in cars because the dealers don't give you enough for them. I did have a recent interesting experience. I had a

2004 Ford Thunderbird in first rate condition. My desires changed and I decided to sell it. I advertised it for months and got no calls. Finally I got a call from a Ford dealer about 120 miles away. They offered me about $500 less than my asking price, but I decided to take it. They sent some one here to pick up the car. Later, I checked their web site, they were asking $31,000 for the car (I bought it 2 years before for $26,000 in Florida as a 1 year old used car). The next week it was no longer on their web site. I assume they sold it. I though this was ridiculous. I would much rather buy a used car from an individual owner than from a car lot. It appears that average people would prefer to buy from a dealer, even if, as in this case, they have to pay a lot more for the exact same car (I sold the car for $23,000).

This is an uphill battle. I know people who have had absolutely horrible Toyotas who won't consider anything else. No matter what is wrong with their Toyota, they just "know" everything else is worse. In my opinion, the press reinforces this. More Toyotas were recalled in 2005, than Fords, yet if you only read the main stream press, you would think that every Ford ever made had been recalled, and no Toyotas were recalled.

I believe the used car manager hangs on to vehicles he feels he can sell quickly for a good profit. If, in his/her experience, a particular vehicle won't sell from his/her lot, he/she sends it to another location or wholesales it. Leith Toyota has a raised platform out in front that always has a non-Toyota used vehicle with a low price on the side in large numerals. I haven't decided if this is done to lure in Customers so they can switch them to other cars, or if they are trying to convince people that non-Toyotas have lousy resale value. There have been a lot of SUVs on the platform recently.

Ed

How said the were not reliable? Ten years from now the hybrids of today will languish on used car lots and be sold to collectors as novelty cars LOL

mike

You don't trust CR? Fine. Your loss.

And are they made with the exact same parts and serviced by the same people?

I value reliability. I don't have time to screw around with a car that doesn't run right in all respects, so if there's a noticeable difference in reliability, it's of importance to me. Others may be more tolerant. That's their lookout.

CR reports on what their subscribers tell them. If you think Toyota owners are buffing up their reports to make their decisions look good, then tell me why Ford owners don't do the same.

The Focus also doesn't get the same ratings as the Corolla on Edmunds. They've had more years of practice building the things; they should be doing a better job than Toyota. But they don't. Ford apparently is willing to risk unpleasant owner experiences. Twenty years ago, when the Japanese cars had not made a name for themselves, this was probably not going to hurt them much. Look where it's gotten them today.

If Toyota wasn't delivering satisfaction, they wouldn't be selling the way they are.

I am willing to consider purchasing a domestic car. At the relative prices, who wouldn't? But I check their reliability rankings before I go buy a car and, so far, it's not equal. I'll take my chances with Toy-Onda, thank you.

Ten years from today, a decent GM hybrid or electric or piss-fueled or whatever alternative vehicle will be "just around the corner" and they'll have a sexy-looking concept at the auto show and Toyota will be selling a million hybrid or non-gas vehicles in the US every year.

Which publications that don't charge for the use of their "best buy" designation or that let members of their editorial staffs work as consultants, AKA bribe takers, with the auto industry?

Ashton Crusher wrote to dh:

At least not the average Vibe and Matrix owners who've taken part in CR's annual reliability surveys from 2003-2006 (5=best, 1=worst):

Vibe: 5 5 5 5 Matrix: 4 5 5 5

The reliability ratings for individual components are identical for 49 out of 64 ratings, and where they're different, 10 show the Vibe being more reliable in some areas, 5 show it being less reliable, and on a weighted basis it's 11 for the Vibe, 5 for the Matrix.

IOW if these surveys show bias, it's against the Toyota Matrix or in favor of the Pontiac Vibe.

I see American cars all

C. E. White wrote to dh:

No, they don't. For each year from 2001-2006, their overall reliability rating for the Focus is average, for the Corolla it's well above average.

OTOH the Focus sedan received a higher overall test score, 77 points, placing it at the upper range of CR's "very good" bracket, just a point behind their top rated small car, the Honda Civic, while the Corolla, at 68 points, was in the middle of that bracket (both automatics).

Why did they like the Proton (the only car brand produced primarily by Koran readers) more than the other cars?

Some are, some aren't. You're entitled to your opinion if you're right, but on whole you're wrong, as the average foreign brand buyer has more education, and it's hard to believe that more education correlates negatively with IQ.

And be replaced with what?

Another auto engineer, Patrick Bedhard, thinks hybrids are a good idea, at least if gas costs enough. OTOH he hates electrics, including plug-in hybrids.

GM's proposed car will probably be something meant to run on nuclear fusion or unobtainium and have a pushrod engine.

More education does correlate with more income. That represents a problem for domestics.

And, as it happens, March auto sales reports are hitting the streets. How is that "novelty" Prius doing, "mike"?

[Reuters Report, April 3] "DETROIT, April 3 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp.(7203.T: Quote, NEWS , Research) on Tuesday said U.S. sales rose 7.7 percent in March, driven by strong demand for its Prius hybrid."

"The Japanese automaker, expected to challenge General Motors Corp.(GM.N: Quote, Profile , Research) for the top spot in global sales this year, said it sold 242,675 vehicles in the United States in March, up from 217,286 vehicles a year earlier."

"Toyota said Prius sales rose more than 133 percent to 19,156 units."

Yes, it means I won't buy the worlds worst dishwasher and refrigerator based on their recommendations again.

Well, do you think gremlins come in at night and monkey with the assembly line when they switch the boxes that have "matrix" name plates in them with the boxes with "vibe" nameplates in them?

That's the point, there is no noticeable difference. You'd have to be buying cars by the hundreds at a time to even see the statistical difference show up between a "good" car that has 1 problem in a years time and the "bad" car that has 1.3 problems in a years time.

My annual buyers guide shows half a gold star for the Vibe and a full gold star for the Matrix. Identical cars !!!!!! The only reasonable explanation is that Toyota owners fudge their reports to make their cars look better and/or that Pontiac owner fudge to make them look worse. It would certainly fit the pattern shown over and over again on newsgroup discussions. Visit a Honda specific group and all you see are discussions of blown head gaskets yet ask a Honda owner if they ever have trouble and not a single one has ever had to have anything on their car fixed.

There's the bias again. If Toyota screws up you'll give them a pass. But if Ford built just as good a car you bitch it should have been even better, damn it. You people just look for things to criticize and complain about on a domestic car and will excuse every fault on an import. If a tie rod on a ford is defect and there is a recall it's just more evidence of poor quality. When the same thing happens on a Toyota you'll claim it shows how good they are at taking care of their customers!!! I think Toyota is currently recalling around a million vehicles for this kind of safety defect but you don't see nearly the kind of screaming headlines about it as you would if Ford was doing the same.

Ford apparently is willing to

You really are blind. CR isn't in the pocket of Detroit like the "reliable sources" you use. Go ahead and live in fantasy land.