Can Anything Stop Toyota?

Philip® wrote:
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No, *MY ORIGINAL ARGUMENT* was that you bought both 2-3 years old and calculated from there. Only a fool buys a new car that depreciates as much as these two do.
Long-term, I bet there's not a large difference.

In being of bellicose mind posted:
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Oooooooo... shouting! Take your Zestril and a couple days off from usenet forums. ;-)

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I find this very difficult to believe. Here in Michigan (probably the key difference), every Ford dealer I've been to for anything has been stellar. Every Toyota dealer has been a virtual pit of despair... when my old man was looking at Landcruisers, we went in my local dealer one night and the service waiting room looked like an inner city ER waiting room. People were packed in there shoulder-to-shoulder, kids running everywhere screaming. It was the most horrible thing I've ever seen, and actually dissuaded me from considering a Toyota as my next car. Either this particular dealer doesn't have its act together, or Toyotas fail at least as much as other makes do.

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The dealership experience is why I bought a Ford. Got a great price ('02 Town Car for 23K), financing folks worked hard to get the lowest interest rate, and the service department is excellent. Contrast that with a local GM dealer: "Find what you want on the lot, write down the vin, come back in & I'll write it up. Price? Whatever's on the sticker."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Professional Shop Rat: 14,175 days in a GM plant. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In wrote in message
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Is FORD in Dearborn MICHIGAN still? The stats I quoted are nationwide, courtesy of JD Powers on Kelly Blue Book's website. And is there perhaps a wee bit of prejudice against ANY foreign brand name in FORD's home turf? Just asking! :-)
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I'll bet the Ford dealers wish they had that kind of enthusiastic foot traffic waving cash around like the Toyota dealer did. LOL

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aparently you can`t read!!!!!!!! he said the "service" waiting room. KB

In wrote in message
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Apparently you don't know how dealers make money.

"Philip®" wrote:
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So are you suggesting that Toyota delberately builds cars that require a lot of service?
Ed

In being of bellicose mind posted:
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There's too much evidence to the contrary.
I have seen dealers of several brands whose service departments were chaotic. But you have to wonder what goes on in a foreign car dealership that's operating in Ford's home state.

"Philip®" wrote:
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I don't get what you mean when you said "Apparently you don't know how dealers make money." I thought you were implying that Toyotas needed a lot of service. This fits in with my observations of the local Toyota dealers and the couple of independedt shops that specialize in Toyotas. You barely get on the lot at teh service department. Toyotas are stacked like cord wood. Even the city streets next to the shops have Toyotas waiting for service. This also make me wonder about the reason that, at least in my home town, there are several independent garages that specialize in Toyotas, Hondas, and even Volvos, but none that specialize in Fords. There are the same number of Ford and Toyota dealers, but I'll bet there are more Fords in the area, yet no one seems to specialize in them. I wonder why.
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When I first got out of college I breifly (very breifly) worked for Ford. At that time I was driving a Datssun 280Z. No one seemed to think it unusual, even in 1978. However, one of the old guys suggested that if there was a union strike that I not drive the Datsun to the main site (I worked at an off site location). The one thing I remember most about foreign cars in Michigan was that they all appeared to have rust holes in them. Even for the short time I was there, I started to worry that my Datsun was going to get road cancer. I washed the car at least weekly, but I could already see the signs of damage inflicted by the road salt.
Ed

The one thing I remember most about
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You shoulda seen my 73 Dodge Dart, what a laugh, more rust on it than paint.
Dale

In being of bellicose mind posted:
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I miscommunicated but, "...too much evidence to the contrary" should have cleared that up.
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I can only speculate.
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Heheheh. Datsun 240z's rusted away here in southern California! Typical area was where the front tires would toss water up at the body, about where your left heal rests. I saw a few (roughly) 5 yr old cars with a small hole clear thru to the floor mat. Scary.

<snip> This also make me wonder about the reason that, at
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When you consider how Toyotas, Hondas, etc. maintain their value and reliability in later years (read "post-warrantee") rather then going over the proverbial cliff after 5 years like the GMs, Fords & Dodges do, you'll then understand why there is value in putting money into keeping them running well into the six figures on the odometers.
I sold an 8 yr. old Toyota pickup with 98,000 mi. on the clock for 64% of what I paid for it new. My 6 yr. old Chevy Suburban with 95,000 mi. on the clock is only worth about 25% of what I paid for it new.
The domestics are worth sooooooo little and cost sooooooo much to keep running once they hit the 5 yr./100k mark, most of them end up in the boneyards because it just isn't worth it to keep farting around with them. That's why you see the independents making a living on Toyotas, etc. and not the Fords, etc. of this world ...
Its all pretty much a "Duh!!" from my point of view.
VLJ -- Take only pictures, leave only bullet holes ...

snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote:
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The CV stands out because, like the old Caprice Classic(square older version), it is used by police and taxis. They have to pay extra attention to problems and over-engineer it since 75-80% of their sales are to these customers. The engine in it is also bulletproof. When you see what police actually do to the engines afterwards to get more power out of it and how they abuse them, in stock form, it may be old and dated, but it's a tank.
Most everything else Ford makes? Yeah - it's junk.
Compared to a Civic or Corolla, it is a clear winner. Most people who buy budget cars buy them because they can't afford a new larger midsized car like a Camry or something nice like a Volvo. I really wonder why people buy Kias and Hyundais for $10K when $10K buys you a darn nice used car.
GM is the same - they make one or two good choices and the rest is not worth looking at. Currently, the LeSabre is a great car compared to almost everything else they make. My mother's had hers for 40K so far and has had one glitch so far(warranty covered it).
Unbelieveably better than their older cars. Is it a Lexus? No. Not even close. Me? I wouldn't buy it new in a million years. They bought it for about $22K, new. $7K in GM credit card rebates since they rotate their entire income through their GM card and pay of the entire balance during the grace period.(heh)
Compared to a 22K Toyota? Clear winner.
I hear Ford also has a credit card, so a few K off of a CV could drop the price to close to $20K.

In being of bellicose mind posted:
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WHERE did you get that figure? (that 75-80% of their sales....). I've never even heard that from MikeHunt.
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Well... take a look under the hood and tell me if you're talking about the OLD Windsor pushrod motor or the relatively recent 4.6 liter overhead cam engine (Yamaha?).

Philip® wrote:
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Police, fleet, rental, and taxis are almost all of their CV sales. The LAPD buys them dozens at a time every month to replace totalled ones. Multiply that times most of the U.S. and you get an idea how tiny their consumer sales are compared to their big contracts.
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What year did they change the motor? I know the old one was a tank.

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
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1992

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Not Yamaha. That engine remained exclusive to the Taurus SHO of years past. The 4.6 SOHC V8 is the same one in the Mustang GT and now in the Explorer too.

In
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One of Ford's "modular" designs?

Neo wrote:
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The motor in the Explorer is from the same family but it has an aluminum block, The Crown Vic and Mustangs get cast iron blocks (except for the Mach 1 - DOHC Aluminum Block for that).
Ed