I have more fun in the Corolla than I would in a Crown Vic. If I were in the passenger transport business, then a Crown Vic or a Towncar would be the only choices. Or... if I wanted to drive something that made me look older. >:-( And as you point out, a Crown Vic is similar to a Dodge Neon where low buy-in and plunging resale are concerned.
On 12-Nov-2003, Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote:
More years ago than I'd like to admit to I bought a 58 Buick Special for 75 bucks. It had 100,000 miles on it. I drove it for about 14 years and sold it with 220,000 miles on it for $100.00. And it still ran well, but was beginning to smoke a bit. Parts were getting difficult to get, as it was about 26 years old. But it always ran well. Not great for mileage, but a very comfortable car on a long trip. Worst job I had to do was replacing a universal joint- it had an enclosed driveshaft. Tires, batteries, brakes, and the usual electrical wiring problems with an old car. And 1 set of ball joints. Nothing expensive, never opened up the motor. Starter was a switch on the carb- turn the key on and floor it to engage the starter. When the switch finally wore out I hotwired it and put switches on the hotwires. Had one frustrating problem- massive oil leak from #1 cylinder. Finally got hold of a mechanic who was familiar with the year. It had a vacuum pump mounted with the oil pump for the vacuum wipers, as well as a vacuum line from #1 cylinder intake runner. The gasket for the oil/vacuum pumps had let go, so I had pressurized oil being fed into the vacuum wiper motor and sucked out into the #1 cylinder intake runner. Dropped the pan and changed the gasket and it was cured. (It looked like I was fogging for mosquitoes so much oil was running through it. LOL) It was also a very fast car on the freeway. If you remember what a 58 Buick looked like, it looked like it was doing about 40 when it was actually doing
max-income
"Joseph Oberlander" sez:
As for a typical GM product? 150K
I've owned Hondas, Subarus, Toyotas, Mitsubishi and now a '97 Chevy Suburban and I do all my own wrenching/maintenance. I bought the Burb thinking that GM had finally stepped up to the plate for quality and reliability (along with the "other" domestic marques). Nope, that Professional Grade stuff is just marketing hype.
That @#%&%! thing started falling apart @ 50,000 mi. when the AC compressor teflon seals went and since then the transmission has eaten its young when the TCC solenoid failed and the sun reaction shell cracked at the spin weld, the engine intake manifold gasket leaked, the wiper control board failed, the rear axles seals failed and ruined the rear brakes in the process, the exhaust system cracked in two and fell off, the brake vacuum booster unit failed, the front ball joints needed to be replaced because the rubber grease bladder rotted and split open, it was recalled because the electric rear-view mirror switch would short out and set the driver's door on fire, it eats brake pads every 25k mi. (and doesn't stop very good when the brakes are OK), the drivers seat rocks back and forth because a small internal piece breaks and I've had to replace the oil lines twice and now the third set are starting to leak at the couplings.
Two of the failures torpedoed our family summer vacation plans two years in a row. Digging around on the web, these problems are well-known on Suburbans and GM continues to make the same 4L60E transmission with the same defective valve body and sun shell to this day. It now has 95,000 mi. on it and the next "well known" failures waiting for me are the $600 fuel pump module in the gas tank and the $800 Eaton limited-slip differential grenading without warning. The damn thing has cost me $6000 in repairs, more than *all* my previous vehicles combined!! All of those previous vehicles went well over 100,000+ mi. with only the expected consumables like plugs, belts, filters, oil and tires needing attention. Our current 12 yr. old Mitsubishi Montero is still running strong @ 120,000 mi. and is ready to be passed on to our oldest boy that will soon be getting his license.
This snake-bit Suburban is my first and last(!!) GM and I'm trading it in on a new Toyota Sequoia for the wife and a new Tundra Double Cab for me. Like someone wiser than me said, "There is no education in the second kick of a mule." No more GM for us ... ever!
VLJ
Ed, you have some sour grape juice running down your face. They didnt get to be #2 on the planet for no reason. Your views are just that, your only.
Yeah, If I'm going to buy a piece of s*it, I want to get a good deal on it!
And Mike, not a single person in here said Toyots were cheap either. Oh, as for Toyota, they are second, on the planet! Of course, 1st is reliability.
We heard you the first time, and we also know you speak for a small of you. They are #2 on the planet, apparently, folks want dull and uniteresting. Of course, trying to get out of a burning car is far from dull and uninteresting, maybe you need a Ford?
VLJ, next time, dont hold back and tell us how you feel. Hey, I bet you can get a new Suburban for about $3000 less than a Sequoia, using Mikes logic, its a good value, but he doesnt keep anything out of the 3/36 warranty.
Not bad for a Mitsubishi.
They actually hold their value as USED vehicles quite well. It's just the first 2-4 years that they depreciate fast due to all of the fleet sales and used taxis and police cruisers(most of which are totalled/salvaged - likely half of 1-4 year old cars)
This of course drops their value, but the cars are quite decent used. Buy for $10K and sell for 6-7K a few years later.
As are your views..... at least Eds make sense. Bob
I always get inexpensive cars 10-26 years old and rarely has one started much past 90,000 miles. The first--1969 Dart 225 six was a Grandma's car (I had the documentation to prove it) at 69K. I bought a 1968 Chevelle 4dr
230something six with 136K and it went to new owners with 171K two years later. I got reports of sitings at least three years later, so I'll bet it hit 210K.
...and juse WHO wants to buy a Crapsler or Ford or GM product at a cheaper price?
BTDT
No Thanks!!
They best know their worth..
Scott in Florida
I've never had a Ford as bad as the Toyota I owned. I only wish the Toyota would have burned up. As for claiming that Toyota is #2 on the planet. I think you have that wrong as well.
Ed
A two year old CV is worth more than a two year old Camry, according to NADA. Considering that the mid sized V6 Camry cost as much or more to drive home when new than the larger V8 CV/GM seems to me the CV is by far the better buy. The CV and GM may be driven by an average older buyer but Toyotas are drive by more woman. Who is the smarter buyer, the average woman or those that have acquired the wisdom that comes with age? Face it Toyotas are overpriced, if you want to spend more because because you think you are getting a better vehicle that's your privilege ;)
mike hunt
"Philip" wrote:
Problem is trying to find a non-smoker's car. I was looking at used Lexus's and everyone stunk of cigarette smoke. These were certified pre-owned Lexus vehicles.
bellicose
used.
I'd have to agree. I've test driven Toyota's but always thought that they sucked. I mean the Celica I test drove was as slow or maybe even slower than my 1995 Escort and it cost a whole lot more. And the Celica GT version cost several thousand more than the regular version but had almost the same amount of torque, so of course it was equally slow. Plus when you keep a car forever like I do things like insurance costs and replacement costs matter more to me than "initial quality". For the difference in insurance costs alone you should be able to pay for all the extra parts you'd put in a Ford or Chevy. I wouldn't even consider buying a Chrysler (or Mitsubishi, or Mazda, or Isuzu, or Nissan).
Their very top-end products aren't bad and can usually be had a couple of years old at the prices a budget Toyota would cost new. I'll tell you from experience - there's a lot more metal and less cost-shaving in a big Buick than in a budget Corolla or Echo.
IME, big domestic vehicles a couple of sizes and trim levels up are perfect choices compared to the lowest-end imports. Both last about the same length of time, but the ride is much better in the GM/Ford/etc.
Now, make no mistake - versus the larger more expensive imports, like an Avalon or simmilar, it's a no-brainer. Lexus verus a Caddy? Duh.
I've been out to the Fontana auction twice in the past three months (friend is a reseller). Sorry, but C/V's have an -average- resale record. Not plunging ... and not steller. Auctions are where the _real_ -market- value of cars is discovered. A model line's popularity, mechanical history, and durability are reflected in the sale price. What happens at the retail level is dictated by salesmanship and financing.
Well... out here in Orange County, CA, things are a little different.
Assmptions: 2001 model, 40k miles on odometer, car is in "Good" condition, same appointments.
Trade-in value to dealer. Ford Crown Vic LX model. $10,895 Toyota Camry LE (w V6) $10,610
Interesting discovery concerning Quality Ratings (JD Powers).
Ford dealship experience was 2 stars out of possible 5 "Five Year Cost of Ownership" revealed a -depreciation- of $15,973.
Toyota dealership experience was 4 stars out of possible 5 "Five Year Cost of Ownership" revealed a -depreciation- of $10,842.
Total Cost of Ownership over 5 yrs (Depreciation, Finanace, Insurance, State Fees, Fuel, Maintenance, Repairs)
Ford Crown Vic $33,296 Toyota Camry $26,393
These stats were gleaned from Kelly Bluebook Online.
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