No it doesen't. Gas pumps have vapor recovery sleeves on the
nozzles that do this. If the pump handle is pulled full on the fuel
rushes into the tank so fast that air can be trapped in the tank
baffles. When the handle cuts off the first time, if time is then
given for the trapped air to bubble out, more fuel can be put
in the tank. The issue is more prevalent with some car and
The law is there because there are some morons who don't
understand this and will just keep pulling the handle until they
have raw gas spraying back out of the fill hole. THAT is what
your probably thinking about with the preventing of pollution.
But that isn't a failure of the gas pump, it is a failure of the brains
of the people doing the filling to understand any of this.
A dumbed-down site for people who don't understand how
their vehicle works.
I don't know about your car but on both of my Chrysler vans,
the evap line comes off the top of the fuel tank, where the
access to the fuel pump is. The line is run to the front of the car
where the charcoal canister is along with the various vacuum
valves that control it. Part of the line is run HIGHER than the
fuel filler opening on the side of the van. So fail to see exactly
how topping off will make the fuel level in the evap line rise
above the level of the gas cap.
Furthermore, the entire evap system is sealed - and the
evap recovery system vents into the intake manifold. I
highly doubt any liquid gas that gets into the system is
going to NOT be burned in the intake manifold.
Except that when Sweden studied that supposition, they found that
there was no measuring error in gas dispensing when topping off UNLESS
there was splashback from the gas filler pipe. See here:
In other words, if you buy a gallon of fuel unless your topping off
causes spashback, the amount of gas that is obtained by the station
from recovering your vapors is not enough to reduce that gallon by
any measurable amount.
In any case the only time I've been topped off in Oregon is when
going to a gas station that only takes cash (ie: Arco) and the pump
stops at something like $19.86 and the station attendant wants to
make it an even $20 so they don't have to make change. And I
don't generally buy gas from those stations, I buy from stations
where I can use plastic, and I've never been topped off at one of
The real concern, as I ALREADY MENTIONED is morons
being so agressive about topping off that they cause splashback.
And, if you do the research you will find out that the biggest
concern about splashback is the fear that the gas station evap.
system will suck liquid fuel back into the vapor recovery system
at the gas station, causing it damage. It's pretty clear that the
FUD about damaging vehicle vapor recovery systems as a
result of topping off is just that - FUD. The gas station owners
know that just asking people to refrain from topping off because
it might hurt the station equipment isn't going to be an appeal that
will get any traction. So instead they invented this bogyman
that if you top off your going to damage your car, so don't do it,
to appeal to people's self-interest.
Quite obviously, splashback causes a spill, and the pollution from
the gas evaporating from the spill is what matters, that and any
pollution that might be caused by a gas station evap recovery
system that had been damaged by sucking liquid gas - from
| > I can and do fill my Safari van by draping the hose over the top of
| > van at the local Sams store. The same for my Toyota Tacoma. They
| > allow one way traffic through the pumps to avoid head bumping and
| > fights ;-} Thanks to people such as you I hardly ever have to wait
| > free pump.
| You know pulling the hose out across the vehicle is dangerous and
| prohibited by law, right?
Not where I live it isn't. Given enough time it probaly will be though.
Why do you say that? Is there anything dangerous or harmful to the
environment about bring the hose over the vehicle? What about a
motorcycle? You can't fill one without bring the hose over the vehicle.
| > |
| > | > I can and do fill my Safari van by draping the hose over the top
| > the
| > | > van at the local Sams store. The same for my Toyota Tacoma. They
| > only
| > | > allow one way traffic through the pumps to avoid head bumping
| > fist
| > | > fights ;-} Thanks to people such as you I hardly ever have to
| > for a
| > | > free pump.
| > |
| > | You know pulling the hose out across the vehicle is dangerous and
| > | prohibited by law, right?
| > |
| > Not where I live it isn't. Given enough time it probaly will be
| Why do you say that? Is there anything dangerous or harmful to the
| environment about bring the hose over the vehicle? What about a
| motorcycle? You can't fill one without bring the hose over the
Who are you responding to Jeff? It appears you meant to respond to
somebody else in the thread but it was posted under my last comment
about it not being illegal to drape the hose over your vehicle here in
There are no emergency disconnect on any of the hoses I have seen in
California, the Midwest or the East Coast. Making an emergency
disconnect that can come apart easily is more stupid than your comments
is this thread.
I don't see how this is asking for a spill if the hose is long enough.
You are an idiot. All gas pump spouts have emergency disconnects. What the
disconnect is, specifically, is an extremely thin connector joint between
hose and the handle, that is designed to fracture if some moron drives off
with the spout still sitting in the gas tank fill hole in their car. This
lot more expensive damage from occurring to the gas pump or hose or
spout. Just because the disconnect isn't painted bright orange and playing
a tune when you pull the handle out of the pump doesen't mean it's not
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 13:28:22 -0800 (PST), Paul Johnson
I'm going to call Bullshit on these alleged "laws", too. One Way
traffic enforced by law on private property? Where you can or can't
put the hose? Cites, please.
Most relevant state laws and codes are on the net somewhere, and
easily quoted, I know California's are -
The One Way traffic one, I can see the property owner (gas station)
"Enforcing" their own rules by refusing you service, especially if you
jumped the line to come in the back way, but they can't give you a
The drive-off Break-away Fitting that is incorporated in the hose
swivel requires quite a bit of force to pop open if it's in good
condition. It isn't going to open just from being draped across the
back of a car by hand - you'd have to be deliberately trying to pop it
open, pulling hard and fast with both hands at the limit of the hose
But there are a few stations who have turned the break-away into a
new profit center - "I'm sorry Ma'am, but I have to charge you $250
for popping the break-away. Now we have to call an equipment
serviceman out and have him replace the hose and nozzle..." And if
the victim doesn't pay, the station can call the cops.
After the victim leaves with their wallet lightened, the owner
checks the seals for damage, they're fine. Put a bit of oil on the
mating surfaces, two big pairs of pliers and pop it back together, and
a 25-cent shear pin out of the box of 100 in the back room. Done.
--<< Bruce >>--
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 17:43:06 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman
The only place I've ever seen a "one way" sign is at one of these:
The worst they can do is revoke your club membership. And they have
signs up that say they have "extra long hoses to reach both sides of
In Virginia, service stations will not refuse service to someone because
they live in fear of getting slapped with a discrimination lawsuit
unless the person refused service happens to be white. They will flat
out tell you that if, say, you ask them to refuse service to customers
who pull in and leave their car stereos blasting the whole neighborhood.
And local law enforcement will concur and say that, because the way
the laws are written in VA, they disuade station owners from refusing
service for that very reason - that the station owner will in fact run a
great risk of getting sued on discrimination charges. Personally - I
think thy're both FOS - just avoiding conflict to make their days go
smoother. But it is a shame that our legal system has allowed this
oppression to prevail in the name of "equality".
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
yup it is a union thing. the gas pumpers union is all powerfull, and will
never let the law be changed.
just last week, they signed a new contract, and they now are being paid over
as a matter of fact, when i retire from my present job, i am going to join
the gas pumpers union. by then, they should be making at least $9/hr, so i
will only be taking a $14/hr pay cut.
While it may have started as some misguided social labor management attempt,
employ the otherwise unemployable, it remains in place now because all the
lazy voters who don't want to vote to pump their own gas...
Gee, I have never noticed an influx of NYC people in New Jersey gas
stations who cross a bridge or tunnel at $4 a pop (with EZ Pass
discount, soon to be $6, and $8 without the discount). Of course, they
often gas up before returning to the city if they are in NJ (there are
not that man gas stations in NYC because of the high cost of land and
doing business in the city) because of the higher prices of gas in NYC.
I do wish you would get your act in order and learn not to top post, but
rather in-line post, which makes it easier to follow the thread.
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