Gas turbine/electric hybrid?

Yeah, just cable television (all of which uses commerical satellite content), weather satellites, GPS navigation, XM radio, the Internet and a huge amount of solar cell research and production. Damn NASA and the military :).

John

Don't confuse companies with technologies. Sure a company which focuses on supplying the government is unlikely to do well in other areas, but there are exceptions to that rule as well. Jet engine development was all funded by the government early on and to this day both commercial and goverment users are supplied from the same factories.

Then of course we have GM's Hummer division, which is clearly an offshoot of government contract work. Of course AM General had to put Hummer into GM's hands in order to maximize the commerical appeal, but the roots are still clear.

It sounds like you have a particular bone to pick.

John

Personally I think that Boeing is making a mistake by outsourcing so much of the 787 development and manufacturing. Boeing is putting know-how into the hands of it's future competitors. Boeing saves some money today but takes away from it's own long term value.

The government wasn't concerned about Boeing using the military technology to build commerical products, it was concerned about giving that technology away to foreign based companies. Since the US taxpayers funded the carbon fiber R&D there are good arguments for not giving the technology away.

John

Nearly anything you can name was either developed or vastly improved by the needs of war, include the space program itself.

mike hunt

Chrysler did this over ten years ago, to an extent. See:

or just google up "chrysler patriot"

Flywheel technology has advanced enough in the last decade that it may be worth it for them to take another shot at it...

foisted

Actually there have been a few turbine powered locomotive engines have been tried. The problem was and still is fuel consumption. Turbines of ANY size use LOT's of fuel rapidly. There have also been a few turbine powered autos built. They were dropped for two reasons, cost of production and fuel use. There are also turbine powered motorcycles. Jay Leno owns one and was telling on a show the other night that it is a very difficult bike to get used to ride since the turbine has a very high lag on both ends.

As for a turbine powered hybrid. Doubt you will ever see one. Heat production and fuel use are both VERY high as is noise.

What Jay Leno and a couple of other people have is a crude homemade motorcycle built around a surplus Allison turboshaft engine. Such things are very different than purpose-built automotive gas turbines which are relatively inexpensive to produce and designed to recover much of the wate heat via regeneration.

Several companies built prototype automotive gas turbines but none were ever sold.

Sirius radio.

True, because of the need of a quality item in a short amount of time.

exists, none of it was terribly expensive to build (except for accounting purposes)

I think I may see where Mr. Bundy is saying. Without having read any of the links provided, it makes sense to me that at zero RPM the motor is putting out zero torque. Once any torque great enough to make the motor turn is applied, then the RPM is no longer zero.

Don't forget Teflon!

What batshit!

If electric motors put out *zero* torque at zero RPM, they'd never begin to rotate at all. Internal combustion engines DO have zero torque at zero RPM, which is exactly why you need an electric motor to start them!

How much torque an electric motor does put out vs. RPM depends a lot on the design of the motor.

DC and AC/DC commutator motors put out their maximum torque at 0 RPM (but will burn out if held at 0 RPM because only one winding on the armature is carrying the full load). An example of a DC commutator motor is the starter motor in a car, or the traction motors in older locomotives. An AC/DC commutator motor is the type used in vacuum cleaners, hand power tools, and blenders.

AC induction motors put out their peak torque at a few percent less than their free running maximum RPM. As you lug them down, torque goes up at first, but lug them too far and torque begins to decline again, but it never drops to zero even at zero RPM. An example of an AC induction motor is a fan motor, AC blower motor, AC compressor motor, or shop air compressor motor. The most commonly used AC motors in the world.

AC Synchronous motors put out their maximum torque at the synchronous RPM. They're used in heavy industry because they can be set to run at leading power factor to compensate for induction motors that run at a lagging power factor- save's the industry money overall.

Variable-frequency drive motors are induction or synchronous motors driven by a variable frequency AC source, so that you can make them put out peak torque at any RPM you want. Modern AC locomotive traction motors are variable-frequency drive motors.

But regardless of the type, ANY self-starting electric motor puts out SOME torque at 0 RPM. An example of a non-self-starting type would be a synchrounous motor without any start/damper windings... but that's a laboratory curiousity as all real-world electric motors have a provision to give them self-starting torque.

I think I remember reading about lots of other issues, too.

There's a massive amount of airflow which all needs to be very well filtered -- I think the Chrysler turbine cars were needing the filters cleaned daily? Of course that's old technology but you'd still have the same basic problem to deal with and probably would still have very frequent filter replacement or maintenance. To say nothing of the replacement cost of Nomen's "HEPA" filters. That'd be one helluva HEPA filter for a turbine engine's airflow.

I think there was a problem with extremely high exhaust temperatures as well? There are ways to reduce that, of course, but it would probably still be a problem.

I think there'd be enormous investment of research dollars with very dubious returns on practical usefulness, and not very likely to see a great advantage even over conventional automotive hybrids.

I often wonder about using smaller engines with higher-pressure turbochargers as a low-cost way to raise fuel economy. Perhaps a modern

1-liter or 1.5-liter with a high-pressure turbo instead of a big V6? (Just a thought, not trying to hijack the thread...)

I thought Teflon? was a happy accident that resulted from a tank car load of whatever the chemical is being lift sitting too long - not a result of any intentional development.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

And now, the rest of the story.

Bill K.

the best inventions are results of mistakes the yellow sticker is a result of a bad glue mixture

Not really. It was the result of specific experimentation. Spense Silver was looking for improvements in the way 3M made tape adhesives and as part of his experimentation, discovered this new glue with different properties. Not really a bad glue mixture as much as experimenting.

Here's a link to the story off 3M's web site...

I agree. (Good thing you didn't refer to bull shit, then I'd have been offended.) After having thought about it after posting I realized a motor can put out torque without turning. I thought of a drill with keyless chuck. When the chuck tightens on the bit the motor is still putting out torque

Makes sense to me. :)