Hybrid Lovers Read This and Lament

Zero, unless you allow the environmentalist idiots to file lawsuits claiming adding water to the environment is a disaster.

Thanks for the crossposting, y'all. Plus all that incredibly informed discussion. Keep it up!

Here is a shortlist of the most advanced Fuel cell companies

THE DAIMLERCHRYSLER F-Cell THE FORD FOCUS FCV GENERAL MOTORS Hy-wire and the HydroGen3 HONDAS FCX fuel HYUNDAI MOTOR COMPANY FCEV NISSANS TOYOTA FCHV VOLKSWAGENS Touran HyMotion

There is a well developed program that has been ongoing for more than a decade and there are several places in the world who are already playing an important part in utilizing these cars

California, USA California Fuel Cell Partnership is to facilitate members' placement of up to 300 fuel cell cars and buses into fleets and to promote hydrogen fueling stations to support them.

Hamburg, Germany is well placed to become one of the leading centres for development of products based on fuel cells.

Florida, USA hydrogen initiative with the production of eight hydrogen powered shuttle buses for use in the Orlando area

=CDsland Icelands first hydrogen fueling station is already operating on the outskirts of Reykjav=EDk. The hydrogen, which powers a small fleet of fuel cell buses, is produced onsite from electrolyzed tap water. Meanwhile the recently formed Icelandic New Energy-a consortium that includes automakers, Royal Dutch/Shell and the Icelandic power company Norsk Hydro-is planning to convert the rest of the island nation to a hydrogen=20 system.

Here is a shortlist of the most advanced Fuel cell companies

THE DAIMLERCHRYSLER "F-Cell" THE FORD FOCUS FCV GENERAL MOTORS' Hy-wire and the HydroGen3 HONDA'S FCX fuel HYUNDAI MOTOR COMPANY FCEV NISSAN'S TOYOTA FCHV VOLKSWAGEN'S Touran HyMotion

There is a well developed program that has been ongoing for more than a decade and there are several places in the world who are already playing an important part in utilizing these cars

California, USA California Fuel Cell Partnership is to facilitate members' placement of up to 300 fuel cell cars and buses into fleets and to promote hydrogen fueling stations to support them.

Hamburg, Germany is well placed to become one of the leading centres for development of products based on fuel cells.

Florida, USA hydrogen initiative with the production of eight hydrogen powered shuttle buses for use in the Orlando area

=CDsland Iceland's first hydrogen fueling station is already operating on the outskirts of Reykjav=EDk. The hydrogen, which powers a small fleet of fuel cell buses, is produced onsite from electrolyzed tap water. Meanwhile the recently formed Icelandic New Energy-a consortium that includes automakers, Royal Dutch/Shell and the Icelandic power company Norsk Hydro-is planning to convert the rest of the island nation to a hydrogen system.

Here is a shortlist of the most advanced Fuel cell companies

THE DAIMLERCHRYSLER "F-Cell" THE FORD FOCUS FCV GENERAL MOTORS' Hy-wire and the HydroGen3 HONDA'S FCX fuel HYUNDAI MOTOR COMPANY FCEV NISSAN'S TOYOTA FCHV VOLKSWAGEN'S Touran HyMotion

There is a well developed program that has been ongoing for more than a decade and there are several places in the world who are already playing an important part in utilizing these cars

California, USA California Fuel Cell Partnership is to facilitate members' placement of up to 300 fuel cell cars and buses into fleets and to promote hydrogen fueling stations to support them.

Hamburg, Germany is well placed to become one of the leading centres for development of products based on fuel cells.

Florida, USA hydrogen initiative with the production of eight hydrogen powered shuttle buses for use in the Orlando area

=CDsland Iceland's first hydrogen fueling station is already operating on the outskirts of Reykjav=EDk. The hydrogen, which powers a small fleet of fuel cell buses, is produced onsite from electrolyzed tap water. Meanwhile the recently formed Icelandic New Energy-a consortium that includes automakers, Royal Dutch/Shell and the Icelandic power company Norsk Hydro-is planning to convert the rest of the island nation to a hydrogen=20 system.

Here is a shortlist of the most advanced Fuel cell companies

THE DAIMLERCHRYSLER "F-Cell" THE FORD FOCUS FCV GENERAL MOTORS' Hy-wire and the HydroGen3 HONDA'S FCX fuel HYUNDAI MOTOR COMPANY FCEV NISSAN'S TOYOTA FCHV VOLKSWAGEN'S Touran HyMotion

There is a well developed program that has been ongoing for more than a decade and there are several places in the world who are already playing an important part in utilizing these cars

California, USA California Fuel Cell Partnership is to facilitate members' placement of up to 300 fuel cell cars and buses into fleets and to promote hydrogen fueling stations to support them.

Hamburg, Germany is well placed to become one of the leading centres for development of products based on fuel cells.

Florida, USA hydrogen initiative with the production of eight hydrogen powered shuttle buses for use in the Orlando area

=CDsland Iceland's first hydrogen fueling station is already operating on the outskirts of Reykjav=EDk. The hydrogen, which powers a small fleet of fuel cell buses, is produced onsite from electrolyzed tap water. Meanwhile the recently formed Icelandic New Energy-a consortium that includes automakers, Royal Dutch/Shell and the Icelandic power company Norsk Hydro-is planning to convert the rest of the island nation to a hydrogen=20 system.

Here is a shortlist of the most advanced Fuel cell companies

THE DAIMLERCHRYSLER "F-Cell" THE FORD FOCUS FCV GENERAL MOTORS' Hy-wire and the HydroGen3 HONDAS FCX fuel HYUNDAI MOTOR COMPANY FCEV NISSANS TOYOTA FCHV VOLKSWAGEN'S Touran HyMotion

There is a well developed program that has been ongoing for more than a decade and there are several places in the world who are already playing an important part in utilizing these cars

California, USA California Fuel Cell Partnership is to facilitate members' placement of up to 300 fuel cell cars and buses into fleets and to promote hydrogen fueling stations to support them.

Hamburg, Germany is well placed to become one of the leading centres for development of products based on fuel cells.

Florida, USA hydrogen initiative with the production of eight hydrogen powered shuttle buses for use in the Orlando area

=CDsland Icelands first hydrogen fueling station is already operating on the outskirts of Reykjav=EDk. The hydrogen, which powers a small fleet of fuel cell buses, is produced onsite from electrolyzed tap water. Meanwhile the recently formed Icelandic New Energy-a consortium that includes automakers, Royal Dutch/Shell and the Icelandic power company Norsk Hydro-is planning to convert the rest of the island nation to a hydrogen=20 system.

More waste than net energy output.

(since net energy output is less than zero...)

If practical fusion power DID exist, there would still be waste; the reactor vessel itself becomes radioactive over time, due to neutron emission. Even if you come up with practical aneutronic fusion, you'll still get some waste, though far less.

And neutrons. Don't forget the neutrons. And of course a lot of the energy is in the form of gamma rays.

thanks to Organized Labor.

all the useless crap. Detroit could easily build a 2500 pound family car that gives 40 mpg and costs $8,000 brand new and gives 250,000 trouble-free miles on nothing but routine maintenance.

After a few years a majority of cars will be either fuel cell cars or hybrids

That is basically what you do with fuel cell cars

It is highly likely that Detroit will miss out on this development at least initially

If they would want to do anything like this it would mean either hybrid or a fuel cell or both

With fuel cells you have a lot less moving parts

What you get is more space in the car

You get a lighter car

You get a car that lasts longer

You get a car with a lot less maintenance

Fuel cells cars and hybrids are no longer just a dream they are a real alternative

Problem is there is not very much production capacity yet

The nerve of those workers, expecting current workers to support them in their retirement instead of saving their own money for the purpose and supporting themselves.

top posting corrected by snipping entire post...

Yes, and now after having helped the American worker to gain reasonable work hours and wages, they are now killing the American worker's jobs by driving companies out of business. Good thing we have unions to steal, I mean tax, our hard earned money.

It really depends how you define reasonable wages. In the cost of building a new car, approx 30% is for raw materials and 70% is labor costs and health insurnace alone adds about 1500 dollars to the price of each new car from GM. The bubble is bursting and time to pay the piper and get runaway costs under control.

OK.......if raw materials is 30% and Labor is 70%, I guess all other costs of doing business is free....right? What a loon...........

Dave

"I guess all other costs of doing business is free....right? "

*lol* There would appear to be many costs of production not accounted for in that oversimplified formula!

100% for development, management and profits On top of everything add marketing at least 200% 300 raw materials 700 labor 1.000 development, management and profits 4.000 marketing and sales ----------- 6.000

The more expensive the car the more is the relative cost of marketing and profits

500 raw materials 1.000 labor 4.500 development, management and profits 14.000 marketing and sales ----------- 20.000

With a complete analysis all costs are labor.