Re: R.I.P. General Motors (1931-2006)

Other two?

Diamler-Chrysler is a German company.

Toyota, Honda and other automakers make most of their cars in the US with domestic components.

The highest domestic content vehicle in the US is the Toyota Sienna, with

So what exactly is a domestic automaker?

Jeff

"Mike Hunter" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@ptd.net:

Mike, You'll disagree with everything, won't you! :) GM's market share has been falling - it's a fact. The managers that are there did not MAKE GM number one. that's what you contended, and it's wrong. GM is number 1 in sales in the US, but the people there aren't responsible for it. JP

I am not disagreeing, I am simply stating the facts. You are correct GM share of the market is indeed shrinking. However what you a re not taking into consideration that the market for new vehicles is growing. GM today is selling more vehicle than when it sold 50% of the market in the fifties. Back then the market was less than 7,000,000 vehicles, today it is over

mike hunt

While Honda actually does build cars in the US with mostly US parts, they are the only foreign manufacture that does. Toyota does not. Look at the first number of the VIN as proof. A '1' indicates made in the US of mostly US parts. Not one single Toyota, except for those built in the GM/Toyota plant in California exhibit a '1.' A 'J,' '4' and '5' what you will see on most Toyotas which indicates the are made in Japan or only assembled in the US of mostly imported parts.. It was Hondas complaint to the FCC that led Toyota to now advertise that their cars are 'assembled in the US of world sourced parts.'

mike hunt

What about that German automaker, DiamlerChrysler?

Where do you get authorative numbers? Apparently, the NHTSA is supposed to get the numbers, but their search page doesn't work. I couldn't find the numbers on the net.

Jeff

You can easily stop in at your local dealer and look at the VIN numbers on the vehicles. ;)

mike

No, you claimed that Honda is the only foreign automaker that makes cars in the US with US parts. Yet the Toyota Seinna is the vehicle made in the US with the highest domestic content. So where do you get your numbers to back your claim. VINs don't count.

Jeff

The first digit of the VIN on a Camry, Sienna or a Tundra and you will discover it is a 'J,' '4,' or '5' not a '1.' A '5' means it is only assembled in the US of less than 40% American parts. If what you are suggesting were true the first number, by law, would be a '1.' Look at an Accord, it is a '1,' as are the vast majority of domestics The Carmys made in Japan display the same parts content label even though it list the origin of the engine and tranny as made in Japan. How can that be possible?

mike hunt

but it IS amazing how they, Honda, Toyota, etc. can build a decent car with US labor. Why not GM... gets back to management and unions I guess.

Again, this tells me little the origin of content in cars from Japanese automakers. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to look at the VINs of the cars as I drive down the highway.

Being able to decode the VIN is not the same as having the statistics that support your arguement, either.

Jeff

IF one believes a 4cy Camry is a 'decent' car The fact is GM sells a lot more cars than Toyota or Honda. That should tell you which cars buyers think are decent cars. ;)

mike hunt

"Mike Hunter" wrote in news:1 snipped-for-privacy@ptd.net:

again, as I've asked before, then why are they a small fraction of their workforce, shrinking white collar jobs, and loosing billions if they're selling more cars? I'm not refuting the gross sales numbers, I haven't gone to try to prove your claim

"SC" wrote in news:CyEXf.3114$IG.1168@dukeread01:

But US labor does build decent cars for ford, gm, and DC. Jeez, I'll be as hard on GM as anyone for their interior quality, inferior styling, 'fun to drive' and handling... but the fact is there's little difference in reliability between the manufacturers, and if THAT is your only concern, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a GM car. It's the other, and far too often intangible, factors that spoil the GM cars. JP

You might also look at resale value after 1, 2, 5 and 10 years. And compare the incentives that GM, Ford and their foriegn automakers like VW, Honda and DiamlerChrysler have to offer to sell their cars. You can add to that the reports from Car and Driver, Consumers' Reports, and other auto magazines about the quality of the cars (although C&D and Consumers Reports see to be biased against American cars, IMHO) and the costumer satisfaction surveys by JD Powers and other companies.

You one statistic (the total sales) does not tell the whole picture.

Jeff

Because they are paying benefits to people who USED to be in their workforce. The health care costs for their retirees is in the billions, and they have to put billions into their pension funds. They also have about $5.5 Billion in liabilities related to Delphi, which they spun off about 8 years ago. And, they have higher manufactoring costs than other automakers.

Jeff

Toyota is currently offering rebates and other incentives, but buyers keep buying these domestic vehicle that you say are no good. Obviously the people that buy them do not agree with your personal opinion. They believe that what they buy is better than what you buy.

I use to buy imports as well because I keep reading how much better they were. What I discovered was they were not better, just more expensive to buy, maintain, repair and replace. I went back to domestics in 1999 and guess what, I discovered they are just as good as the imports I had owned, but less expensive to buy, maintain, repair and replace. ;)

mike hunt

The rebates that the big 2 and DiamlerChrysler offer were much higher than the rebates that Toyota and Honda have offered over the last year.

When did I saybig the Big 2 cars were no good?

How do they know what I buy?

I own an American built Ford Contour. Can you back your claim that American cars are less expensive to buy, maintain, repair and replace? I mean real references. Not your opinion.

Jeff

That's easy, economies of scale. ;)

I don't believe that selling the most cars makes you the best product... marketing, "buy American" campaigns, etc. all push to market share. A great product would certainly be helpful, but I don't think GM has that great of a product... Selling more product may just mean your older lines just wore out quicker, folks don't keep them long... Maybe the Vette, but that's not comparable to a camry anyway... 4cyl or 6cyl. ;-)

I do like the lines on the new Impala, it's really pretty, but lost the muscle.