On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:05:24 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:
How many had bad head gaskets? Besides the 7M series?
And that was because the US required the use of non-asbestos head gaskets.
I've crawled throuh many cars, and some of the best built are Toyotas.
'89 Mazda 626
'05 Scion tC
'89 Soob GL coupe
'97 Soob Legacy wagon
'92 Dodge Grand Caravan
'85 Corolla GTS
The Supra and the GTS are really well screwed together.
The Mazda and the '89 Soob are fairly well made and easy to work on. Never
did a timing belt before, and replacing the TWO on the Soob was child's
The Scion is about like any modern car, light materials and quick assembly.
The Caravan is made like all Caravans, pretty well.
Also in my stable were a '90 240SX. UGH! Held together with SHEET METAL
SCREWS!!!! I thought since the car had been through the mill it was a slap
together job by the seller, but when I went to get parts out of another
one, SHEET METAL SCREWS!!!
Chevys? UGH! We're not talking you Father's Chevrolet here.
Fords are OK, better made than Chevy's
My '94 LHS was a fairly bullet-proof car, but repairs were NOT easy.
GMs are made to please the shareholders, not the customers. That said, we
had a Buick on the lot Park Avanue) that was a very nice running car. I
was going to buy it but someone gave me the LHS, and I bought a Tercel
instead. Even the lowly Tercel was a very well made car.
We also had an 85 Cutlass on the lot. The guy who owned it wanted his wife
an kid in a newer car. It was also a very well running vehicle with
225,000 miles on it, but it had also had a new starter, alternator, AC
compressor, etc installed within the prior year. But it was a decent car.
I sold it to some people looking for a good, reliable car, and saw the
darn thing running 3 years later.
Must have been made on a Wednesday...
Mitsubishi for years sold cars with defective brakes, even the board of
directors knew about it, eventually they all were put on trial. Nissan
is owned/shared with Renault a company that regularly under-performs in
the reliability stakes, luckily my Nissan predates the tie up. Mazda
is a ford and if you look hard enough you'll see all the Ford parts but
Mazda names. Chrysler is in a league of it's own in unreliability,
whilst both Honda and Toyota regularly come out top in "Which?" a UK
based consumer magazine which doesn't take adverts so it's totally
independant of manufacturers.
Soon, maybe, car companies will either refuse to sell or will require
large insurance to cover such incidences, premiums passed down to
consumers, of course. OR, a waver signed by the consumer, doubtful
because these instruments do not hold up well in civil courts. Just
forget it. We'll all be paying more $$$ for just a few incidences.
Hope you like walking, taking a bus or riding the bike. Cheers.
Just becasue a magazine doesn't take advertsing doesn't mean it is
fair and truthful. Where does "Which?" get their data? I look at
consumer magazines like this as just a different set of opinions
affected by a different set of biases.
"Which?" Is a consumer magazine that does independent tests and where a
product is complicated like a car it joins forces with like minded other
consumer magazines throughout Europe. They also pole their readership
every two years on each car's previous reliability and publish the
results. It's a totally different product from the JD Power Survey which
we also get over here, who, to be honest I wouldn't trust, any more than
I would any other magazine that runs adverts.
Last year I was in Florida on Holiday for about three weeks and had a
Dodge Avenger 2.4 automatic which I liked very much, but I wouldn't buy
one as it only turned in 340 mile each tankful of petrol (I know you
gallons are smaller than ours) even so I worked out that it was doing
only half the mileage of my own car, a Nissan Almera Diesel 2.2.
Readers polls (also the favorite of Consumer Reports over here) are
not much better than JD Powers. You need a statistically valid survey
to guage reliability.
In addition, I don't know about "Which?" but most of these studies
roll up surveyed problems in a way that makes the end product somewhat
useless (i.e. there's a big difference between "the manufacturer found
a software defect that caused knocking and recalled all the cars to
fix it for free" vs "the ECU's have died and the manufacturer fought
tooth and nail against replacing them for free". But, both tend to
roll up under the same "engine electronics - good or bad" category.
Toyota UK obviously feel they have. They have started doing the oldest
cars first 2001-2002, and will continue to work through the fleet, the
fix takes about 40 minutes and (on TV) looks to involve a small metal
plate an inch to an inch and a half square.
They "say" they have a confirmed diagnosis. I looked into how Toyota
diagnosed the problem with Tacoma pick-up truck sudden acceleration
complaints from 2 years ago...they said that was caused by the
internet.....and blamed it on the Customers.
This is now a question of trust. Given Toyota's long history of
dishonesty when it comes to "diagnosing" problems, do you think it is
wise to believe them now?
So far Toyota's handling of the unintented acceleration / stuck
throttle issues have involved the following sorts of explainations:
- It wasn't a problem
- It was the Customer's fault (incompetent drivers)
- It was the non-Toyota all weather floor mats
- It was improperly installed non-approved floor mats of all sorts
- It was the Customer's fault for improperly installing floor mats
- It was the shape of the accelerator pedal, but this was still the
Customers fault for improperly installing floor mats
- It was something else too (not just the floor mats), but we are sure
it is the Customers fualt
- It was the pedal assembly Toyota was forced to buy from those
incompetenet Americans (or Canadians).
- Oh yeah, We (Toyota) will look back at those Tacoma complaints from
2 years ago too...but We are sure it is the Custoemrs fault...
- There is nothing wrong with the Prius...well except incompetent
Customers don't understand how the brakes work and panic when they
don't stop the car...
Untill forced by NHTSA, Toyota seemed perfectly willing to blame the
Customers. Once forced to admit there was a problem they immedaitely
tried to find a scape goat (CTS, Customers, floor mat suppliers,
etc.). Oh What a Feeling.
I've driven a Mk3 Prius, when you brake in an emergency fashion, The
disc brakes are engaged, it's only under partial or light braking that
you get the regen. then a swap to the discs to finally bring you to a
stand. All that Toyota are doing is reprogramming it's software so
the isn't a slight pause between both.
It is not the fact that Toyota has a minor problem with the Prius
brakes, or sudden acceleration, or bad ball joints, or rusting frames,
or leaky fuel systems that bothers me...it is that in every case,
Toyota's first reaction is to deny there is a problem, the second
reaction is to blame the Customer, the third reaction is to blame a
supplier,, etc......at least in the past they never seemed to be
willing to face up to facts - they designed the vehicles, they built
the vehicles, and they sold the vehicles to what they keep claiming or
incompetent Customers......When is Toyota going to honestly admit,
they screwed up? So far all I've heard are a bunch insincere sounding
apologies and promises to do better in the future.
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