oh, bullshit. you evidently haven't driven a toyota, and you evidently
don't have any interface with the general public in your work - some
people do nothing but groundlessly whine and complain.
fact is, frod paying off the families of the bereaved while continuing
to sell vehicles it knows to be defective is "insincere". toyota
investigating and concluding that a whiner's complaints are groundless
is not - it's absolutely the right thing to do.
"news at 11 - nasa cancels space program because kook from flat earth
society complains that 'orbit' is impossible."
I think you've had too many Jim Beams to drink, JB. Buy a Ford Fusion!
Even the biased Consumer Report has flat out said the Fusion is more
reliable than its Toyota & Honda counterparts, you're spouting off nonsense
about domestics being crap. The Fusions are better looking, more fun to
drive, and cost less.
<I clipped all the repetive attempt to defelect attention from the
Toyota problems by ranting about other manufacturers>
Your whole line of reasoning seems to mirror the Toyota corporate
philosophy deny, deny, divert attention. It seems to me you have the
* Toyotas are perfect
* Toyotas have no problems
* Any problems associated with Toyotas are the fault of the people who
* All other cars except Toyotas are crap
* Whenever it is discovered Toyota aren't perfect, it is acceptable
start yelling and screaming about other manufacturers to try and
change the subject.
* It is OK to lie as much as necessary to protect the Toyota image
You need to get over the "Toyota are perfect" / "domestic cars are
crap" opinion. Reasonable comparisons show almost no difference in
quality between the major domestic manufacturers and Toyota.
I can't understand why you think it is a good idea to sweep all these
Toyota vehicle speed control problems under the rug. It you honestly
look at the data available, I believe you would agree that Toyotas has
had more of a problem with vehicle speed control issues than other
manufacturers over the last decade. If you want to argue the chances
of any one Toyota running away are small, I agree with you. However,
NHTSA has to look at the bigger picture. Toyota has at least 10 times
more complaints related to speed control issues than other major
vehicle manufacturers. Is it reasonable for this disparity to be
ignored? These problems were pointed out three years ago. If Toyota
had actually worked the issue back then, it would not be front page
news now. Your attitude is exactly the attitude that has gotten Toyota
in so much hot water now. Hiring former NHTSA execs to help cover up
problems is not the right way to go. Co-operating with NHTSA to
resolve issues is a much better strategy. The domestic companies
figured this out years ago. Toyota needs to figure it out now.
Companies don't always agree with NHTSA opinions/findings, but in
general working with NHTSA is better than trying to work around them.
I've been following this thread quite closely as I own a Toyota which
they have notified me that my car is subject to a "voluntary" recall.
It was said that there are three kinds of lies, "Lies, Damned Lies and
statistics". I notice with amusement that you've managed the last of
"Which?" Is far more reputable than you and they don't agree.
You obviously don't see the news in your own country, we get both your
NBC and ABC news during the late evening, both said that as soon as a
recall is issued it was normal for people to come crawling out of the
woodwork, hence the large No. of complaints. Whereas Ford apparently
just incinerate theirs, keeping them under the carpet with secrecy
Yes, for the reasons just pointed out.
If you believe everything you read in the papers (Where only bad news
makes sales) then you're even more naive than I first gave you credit
Now it's you that is scare-mongering, both retired NHTSA staff, have
stated that their former employment has not influenced them at all, but
it is more convenient for you to forget that.
Hence Fords wriggle to get out of repairing faulty gearboxes, and just
issuing orange stickers.
I believe that this is the event that led both the US and UK among
others to mandate the use of P-R-N-D-L for A/T vehicles.
I's also Frightening to know that you are allowed to drive in our
country without passing our test when my fellow country-men can only
drive A/T cars if that is what they passed the driving test on.
Don't bother trying to reply, you're incapable of being impartial, or
Well, Honda would like you to think so. Must be why they stopped
releasing their TSB's to the public - no TSB's, the cars must not have
any factory confirmed issues.
Regardless of what those POS domestic cars are responsible for, Toyota
has a LONG tradition of refusing to acknowledge major issues with
their cars. Denial is their game until the public uproar becomes so
loud that they have to admit to the faults. Just in the last few years
we've had the sludge problem, the truck frame problem, and the sudden
that's odd - my grandmother never gets tsb's delivered in the mail for
her frod either. is there something wrong?
how can you acknowledge a problem you can't replicate? like any fault
diagnosis, you have to actually catch the problem to be able to solve
it. and of course, you have to make account of the idiot/sheeple factor.
sludge comes from oil breakdown and possibly also excess moisture.
unless a head gasket has gone, it's hard to see how that could be an
engine's fault if a driver is not getting the engine hot enough to deal
with the latter, or running it too long to cause the former. or maybe
toyota just got ripped for a bulk delivery of sub-standard oil.
toyota are hardly unique in that. and it's the usa-made componentry
that's the problem. if they weren't paying sufficient attention to q.c.
to catch deficiencies, they do indeed have fault. but it's not a
fundamental design flaw like certain domestics we can mention.
same as above. a sticking throttle - q.c. inspection toyota didn't
catch from a faulty usa supplier - doesn't mean it's stuck in the full
open position. and it also doesn't mean the driver can't use the
brakes, select neutral or turn off the ignition. i've experienced stuck
throttle, and it sucks. but it wasn't on a toyota and was easily
controlled. twelve vehicles [and two crashes] out of many millions
driven literally billions of miles is a statistical non-event. planes
crash all the time, but i don't hear a political hue and cry about the
very real and statistically significant dangers of flying.
Who told you that nonsense?
All American Honda TSBs are available at https://techinfo.honda.com
(but only to US billing addresses)
If you have a membership at your local library, you can also get them
through EBSCO-Host's website, accessed through the library's site (in or
out of the US).
Each model year, American Honda typically issues about 90-100 TSBs for
Honda-branded cars, and about 70-80 for Acura-branded cars.
I think the problem is that Honda (and Toyota) forced third party
sites like Alldata to stop posting the TSB titles for free. This made
it harder to learn of TSBs that might affect your vehicle. You can
still find titles of safety related TSBs at the NHTSA web site.
However, NHTSA only lists safety releated TSBs (and only a brief
description). The vehicle manufacturers get to decide what is safety
related, so the NHTSA site isn't much use if you want to find out if
there is a TSB for a particular concern that Honda doesn't consider to
be safety related. However, if you don't mind the modest fee for
temporray access you can get all sorts of information form the Honda
site mentioned above. Toyota and Ford (and probably others) have
similar sites that give you temporary access to lots of good
information. I especially like the Toyota site. I visit it frequently.
It has helped me with a couple concerns we had with the SO RAV4.
It has the TSBs themselves, and for just about all makes going back to
about 1990. I don't know how they do it, but as far as I can see, they're
all there. The only ones that may not be there are the very newest ones.
They are separated by year, then by make, then by model, then by sub-model
(LX, DX, etc). TSBs that are applicable to several models are repeated in
the appropriate locations.
I checked just now, and it's still there, just like it has been for years.
When are you going to address Toyota's problems? It is obvious to
anyone who look that Toyota has major quality / safety issues.
Sticking your head in the sand and making up "facts" about 15 year old
domestic vehciels isn't addressing the current problems.
As for you trial lawyer Explorer attack sites. They are ridiculous.
The cites trolling for clients usually show pictures of 1996 - 2001
models. The only problem is, by those years, the Explorer had
completely different front suspension than the early 90 models. So
they claim a design defect for late 90's models based on a design from
a completely different version of the vehicle. It is ridiculous. All
the crap about how Ford didn't update the suspenison from a 1990
Ranger is completely wrong when you are talking about vehicles from
1996 on. If you would bother to do any research at all, you would
understand this was a bunch of half baked crap written by a bunch of
trial lawyers looking for a pay day. The time line reference is
unbelieveable. It mixes letters regarding the Bronco II, early
Explorers, late Explorers, etc. They do just about as much research as
you - ZERO. Repeating the lies / misinformation originated by other is
not research. Accident statistics have never supported the idea that 4
door Explorers were particulary dangerous compared to other vehciles
in the class. Find some statistics that say otherwise....
it's obvious to anyone who looks that frod has major safety/executive
sticking your head in the sand and making up [unproven] "problems" with
domestically produced vehicles that use non-union labor isn't addressing
the fact that detroit produces crap and is prepared to kill citizens
rather than design properly.
yeah, all except for the parts where they subpoena frod's internal
documents that show them to be deciding to continue production, even
though they know vehicles to be fatally unsafe.
no, it's the /post/ 2001 that are completely different.
logical fallacy. see above.
stick to the correct dates dude. please.
and yet, oddly enough, trial lawyers have to stick to provable facts in
order to win cases. strange how you'd not want to admit that. or not.
"unbelievable"??? it shows the clear and consistent policy of frod
executives to dismiss safety because it would cost more. if you don't
think that's wrong, there's something wrong with you.
translation: "daring to point out facts that contradict what i don't
want to see makes me feel uncomfortable."
except that their single-vehicle rollover fatality rate - you know,
where no there vehicles were involved, so only that vehicle was
responsible, and the stats you carefully avoided citing - was three
times that of its next rival.
for you to dismiss as "lies and misinformation"???
you know ed, your arguments always work great. right up until the point
where you ignore/dismiss facts, operate double standards, and won't use
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