Screw Consumer Reports

Really, then how does you opinion square with the Camry being the number one selling mid-size sedan? LOL

mike hunt

Make up your alleged mind.

Is GM "best" in your universe because it has the highest sales figures or is Toyota "best" because it has the best-selling single model?

You my friend are the person confused, if you do not believe buyers in the US spend their hard earned money on what THEY believe is the best.. GMs vehicles, in the minds of most buyers are the best, that is why they buy more of them than any others. The Camry in the minds of most buyers are the best mid size car, that is why they buy more of them than any others. The true test is what do the most buyers buy, not what CR or you best friend believes is better. That my friend is the point I have been tying to make you understand and your are failing to grasp.

The vehicle that leads its segment of the market in which it competes is obviously the BEST since buyers choose it above ALL the other with which it competes. That is why the Civic is the number one selling small car, the Camry is the best selling midsize car, Buick has the best selling large car, The Escape is the best selling small SUV, Explorer the best selling mid size SUV, and Chevrolet sells the number one large SUV. Ford is selling more of its F150 than ANY other vehicle car or truck and has been for nearly 30 years. Dodge sells more minivans than anyone else and has for more than twenty years. The Ford Econoline is the lest selling large van and the list goes on. The reasons more buyers buy those vehicle than any others is because the buyers believe they are the best, period. Not because CR says they should or should not buy them. ;)

mike hunt

What? People buy what they like the best? thats just crazy talk.

sorry - just felt left out of this stupid ass thread, I just had to post in it! :)

Okay Mike. Anecdotal should be shoved aside. Hmm, also don't pay attention to wide reaching surveys. Instead, judge quality and value based on what is the most popular seller. That is what you are saying.

Just curious Mike, do you like AOL as an ISP? Boy, they sure are popular. Must be the best, at least by your logic.

The SSR is more like a $40,000 truckett. It is no truck. Maybe lard-assed bad-idea, but not a truck.

Don't argue with Mike. Waste of time. Accept his logic. Most unit sales + massive losses + sinking market share = highest quality for GM vs. junky brands liked by the idiots at CR such as Toyota.

GM's future is assured thanks to Mike's proof that GM quality is the best. And those guys at GM who actually admit their quality is inferior to Toyota? Heck they probably just don't want some poor Toyota exec. to feel bad and have to impale himself on a sword or letter opener or something.

On behalf of GM stockholders everywhere, Mike, I thank you for lifting the veil of deceit and despair for us all.

And like GM is rapidly losing market share. But at least AOL sees the handwriting on the wall and is starting to offer broadband.

Marketshare is a fickle thing. Every manufacturer has seen fluctuations in marketshare. That all by itself is pretty meaningless. It only stands to reason that GM would be seeing an impact from all of the recent announcements. I expect they will continue to see some hits for a while. That's the nature of the market. I also expect they'll come out of this in time. I suspect they'll come out with a radically different agreement with the unions, and I equally suspect that's what's behind a great deal of this. Some honest restructuring both within the corporate ranks, the corporate processes, and the union relationships would be good for GM and would position them to be a leader again. Contrary to what the Toyota advocates like to tout, I believe GM has some pretty damned good stuff to be proud of.

Apparently AOLs subscribers think it the best, they are willing to pay the cost.

mike hunt

Seems you too are confused, as well. What makes you think any opinion that does not agree with your opinion MUST be wrong? I never talked about who is earning what, nor have I ever said Toyota or any other brand sells junk. What I have said, over and over, is that ALL manufactures are building good high quality, reliable vehicles today. The only real deference among them is style and price. Buyers buy the brand, model, style and price they think is best for them. Any other conclusion as to what buyers prefer defies logic.

mike hunt

Taking a break from making disparaging remarks about Toyotas over in the .toyota group so that you can help mis-inform the people who hang out in .gm?

You're so considerate.

All manufactures are building vehicles with better quality than 20 years or more ago.

It's just that some are building better than others and those "some" are most often Toyota and Honda.

As long as GM execs are dedicated to lining their pockets rather than building great cars, they're always going to be also-rans in quality, reliability and resale value.

Go ahead, check Edmunds on resale value. If Chevy didn't think Edmunds was at least reasonably authoritative and reliable, they wouldn't promote it in their TV ads, now would they?

The question was, do YOU personally think AOL is the best national ISP?

I sure don't. I know they aren't in fact. But anyway, they are the most popular. That shows me that your logic of best seller = best quality/value is proven wrong. I could come up with many more examples but I really only need but one.

Like I said that my be your opinion, but the people that subscribe to AOL think otherwise, obviously.

Personally I have been connect for many years, via satellite, to server connected to a high speed a cable network that happens to be the oldest ISP/cable system in the country.

mike hunt

or the folks on AOL are stuck... :-)

Hey, this is all about the survey results that CR publishes. Those survey results are not based on my opinion (except for my one survey reply), they are based on over a million replies by loads of car owners. Those surveys show that you are dead wrong about brand reliability. There is a HUGE difference between the reliability experience of, say, a Caddy and a Lexus...according to the people who bought the two brands.

That is not the only factor that controls buyer choice for all or even most buyers, you are exactly right about that and, as a result, GM sells a lot more cars/trucks in the U.S. than Toyota. But they make no money doing it and that is bad. I submit to you that if it was GM that had the excellent survey results i the CR survey and Toyota had the mediocre or worse ones, we would be discussing how Toyota is going to survive in the U.S. market.

It has come to light that the loss at GM last year was $11.000.000.000 and not just $9.000.000.000 as was previously estimated

So with $15.000.000.000 loss this year it will be interesting to see how long they continue paying customers to take cars

"Gosi" wrote in news:1142697668.643093.130050 @z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

of course, we all wonder where you came up with that fictious, inflammatory $15B figure from. I suspect somewhere dark and dank. JP

They probably go bankrupt soon

"Gosi" wrote in news:1142758556.676413.321120 @z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

Engrish bad. Bankrupt bad. bad, GM, bad.

JP:)