I am working on a new website www.Ford351.com and need pictures of
Ford 351 engines. I had a '72 Ford Torino with a 351C engine but no
good engine pictures before restoration.
Specifically, I am looking for 351 C or 351 W engines. Pictures of a
"Boss 351" or 351 engines factory installed in non-Ford cars (Pantera,
Ski Nautique, Jeep) will be interesting.
Please do not mail me pictures of your cars. I am looking for Ford
351 engine pictures.
Images to snipped-for-privacy@Ford351.com .
I wonder if you know the Cleveland and the Windsor are not related.
Except that they were both in Ford cars and they sound alike because
of the 351. Some parts can be made to swap with a lot of machine work.
The Cleveland had a much shorter run and is more interesting in other
ways. Try to hang onto it.
If you wanted to do something really interesting get into the FE big
The W and C blocks weren't even close, although IIRC, Cleveland heads could be
to fit on a Windsor with some modifications and a special intake manifold. I
remember the particulars though, that was a looong time ago.
The 351C and 351M are 'similar' but there is very little interchange between
For all intents and purposes, they are all three distinctly different engines.
And iron blocks / iron heads.
And bore spacing.
And bore size(4.00" - also shared with the 352 FE engine).
And stroke(3.5" - also shared with the 352 FE engine).
And displacement(352 cid - also shared with the 352 FE engine).
And head bolt pattern.
And 3.00" main bearings(on some).
other than that, they are 2 completely different engines.
Yeah, sorry about that. Most folks interested in Fords & Mustangs know
all that stuff already, & that the Cleveland engine was developed to use
a set of heads that were originally designed for & bolted to a Windsor
That's a new one.
As far as I'm aware, the Cleveland was designed completely independently of
the Windsor to eventually be used as a Windsor replacement, and the 4V heads
only ever saw use on the Windsor based Boss 302 (which required an inlet
manifold unique to that particular engine). The problem with the Cleveland
was that it was a horrible engine as far as emissions go, and had a very
short run in the US because it couldn't meet the emissions requirements
without being strangled to death.
It ran for quite some time here in Australia, but our emissions laws weren't
The Cleveland heads.
While they'll bolt onto a Windsor block with little trouble, they're
completely different to a Windsor in that the Cleveland's flow
characteristics promotes poor atomization at low to mid rpm, and plenty of
They work well on lpg, provided you run a good valve seat insert, as
Cleveland heads are made from a very soft grade of cast iron, and will
suffer from massive valve seat recession in a big huury.
Anyone who owned a 4V Cleveland will tell you that the things do next to
nothing under 4000rpm other than suck massive amounts of fuel. Once they hit
that rpm band, they really take off and become a bit of a fire breather. It
used to be quite a task to get any performance from the things back in the
GTHO Falcon days if you ran the standard 6150rpm rev limiter, as you'd only
have a couple of seconds of "play time" in the lower gears between getting
on the cam and needing to change gear before the rev limiter would try to
blow the mufflers off the car :)
The 2V's weren't anywhere near as bad, but still suffered from a horrible
Any production Cleveland engine anyway.
The Cleveland is known to have existed in pre production form before the
Boss 302 ever went into production, and the popular theory is that Ford made
the two engines share a lot of physical dimensions, like cylinder head bolt
spacings for example, to reduce machine tool production costs. The failure
of the Tunnel Port Windsor head lead a couple of engineers to experiement
with the new Cleveland head on the Windsor short motor, and the outcome of
that experiment was the Boss 302 we know today.
As far as I can tell, the only difference between Boss 302 cylinder heads
and early production 4v cylinder heads is the screw in studs, and slightly
bigger valves of the Boss head. Laid side by side on a bench, the gasket
faces look identical.
'The "M", by the way, does not stand for anything. Ford only used the
"M" designation to distinguish it from the 351 W (Windsor) and the now
discontinued 351C (Cleveland). The "M" designation has now become know
to mean "modified" or "Michigan", even though the 351M was produced at
both the Cleveland foundry and Michigan casting center.'
I had one once. I did everything to that truck. It sure hurt when I
sent it to the crusher.
(||) Nehmo (||)
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