302 Clevland????

As far as I know the Cleveland Plant never made a 302. The Cleveland 351 was superior to the Windsor one.

Yes there is a 302 Cleveland. Basically they were made in Australia out of the 351 Cleveland to offer an alternative 8 cylinder engine. What they did was take the 351 and reduce the stroke from 3.5 inches to 3 inches.

Nick

as for the 351c being superior

351c, produced 5 years, 70-74

351w, produced 30 years, 69-98

FYI: From Wikipedia

"This engine was built only in Australia, and was intended to give their consumers a five liter alternative to the 351 Cleveland as the Ford "Windsor" series of engines was not commonly available there. Utilizing a locally produced 351 Cleveland block, 302 in³ (4.9 L) was attained by reducing the stroke of the 351C from 3.5 to 3 inches (89 to 76 mm). Additionally, the 302C cylinder heads were designed locally, with smaller combustion chamber to compensate for the reduced stroke of the engine. This combination of closed combustion chambered quench heads with smaller 2 barrel style ports made a more powerful setup known in the USA as "Australian heads". These heads interchange directly onto 351C engines, and are highly sought outside of Australia as a low-cost method to increase compression ratio. They are a good street alternative to the over ported 4 barrel heads. Using the 302C cylinder heads on an otherwise unmodified 351C will increase the compression ratio beyond a safe level for regular pump fuel. Using the small chamber 302C cylinder heads properly requires engine design changes (deck clearance, piston design, cam shaft specifications) optimized for the intended use."

I though Ford NASCAR still uses Clevelands to this day.

FYI: The Yates heads used by Ford NASCAR today are derived from the 351C.

Good pics. That is a Cleveland by the high valve covers, canted distributor and dry intake manifold. Same here in a '71 Grande 351C 4V M code.

I believe nascar 351's are hybrid 351w style block with 351c crank journals

I believe nascar 351's are hybrid 351w style block with 351c crank journals

I think the Cleveland was curtailed because the EPA determined we were having too much fun. It has huge ports and valves and a high compression ratio.

Well there you go. The more cars I looked at the more they mentioned the 302 Cleavland, so I began to figure it wasn't a typo.

On one of the sites they talk about the histories of the cars and companies and while talking about Holden's history they showed a picture of an 05 or 06 Commodore. Under the picture he says "and NO you can not import one!" I want to know why. I also know if I ever do this I do NOT want to move the controls.

That illustrates what as to which engine is superior?

The 351C/429/BOSS 302 canted valve style heads were the best pushrod head design Ford ever sold, far superior to any factory Ford Windsor head. That is fact, not opinion.

Ford and GM have insisted on and the government has routinely supported them that US regulations be different (and usually no better or worse) that regulations everywhere else in the world for the express purpose of preventing cars for sale in other markets to be sold in the USA.

Often, these vehicles are products they make elsewhere but do not sell in the USA.

Back in 1980 or so there was truth to the US regs being superior for crash protection and emissions. Now it's not so much as being superior, but just different. Lighting regs in the USA are outdated and inferior to those (ECE) used throughout the rest of the world. The result of this is that if the car isn't 25 years old or older, you can't bring it in to the USA legally. (well there is a very expensive and long involved process, but even if you've got the money of Bill Gates it's a pain in the ass, just google about his porsche)

In the globalism of "free-trade" companies can relocate their manufacturing overseas to undercut the US worker. But the US worker can't buy products of his choice from overseas to undercut or get a better product.

From australia though there are some other technical complications regarding the right hand drive, but there are no laws preventing RHD cars from being on the road in the USA.

Yeah like the sleek 4 door Dodge Charger they have. I'd love to have an 03 5.0 Falcon.

the 351c heads may be "superior" but the 351c engine as a total package is not really superior, the 351c had better heads but had poor oilling system,shorter deck height. FWIW the boss 302 was a "windsor" with 351c style heads and the 95 cobra R was all 351 windsor. nascar engines are hybrids utilizing the best of both designs,also the original 351w 4 barrel engine was rated at 290 hp while most 351c 4 barrel engines hovered around 300 hp +/-

"DRAGNET" wrote in news:1167652229.120291.95970 @s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

The 351C WAS superior. It was a victim of both smog laws, and the corporation being in major financial trouble. The decision was made to continue producing the small block 351W, and to replace the 351C with a stroked down 400 called the 351M, because Ford couldn't keep up with the demand for that size engine using the 351W only.

Using a 400 block meant that Ford now only needed to build 2 blocks rather than 3. The 351C block is very similar to the 400, but had enough minor differences to require it to be built on a different assembly line.

A very popular mod to the 351W is called the "Clevor," which entails modifying the superior 351C heads to fit on a 351W block.

351M was destroked 400 lo-po truck engine never installed in a car, the majority of "ford" car people wouldn't even consider using 400/351m although they are tall deck cleveland design.

"superior" means better in every way, it's just not the case when comparing 351w to 351c

stroked 351w's are popular today, maybe ford should have built a

400'ish windsor, they already had the 302 pistons & the crank from the 400 that would fit with some minor mods.

The Cleveland "Poor Oiling" issues were never as serious of a problem as some people like to infer. There are many high performance Cleveland engines running many thousands of HARD miles on unaltered factory original oiling systems with ZERO problems.

The pinnacle of 351 Windsor head carbureted performance, should be compared to the pinnacle of the Cleveland's factory carbureted performance which is

330 horsepower. That 40 horsepower just reaffirms the original statement, the 351 Cleveland was superior to the 351 Windsor.

Factory or modified, dollar for dollar, a whole lot more horsepower is available from a 351 Cleveland than a 351 Windsor. As for the 351C being superior, Yep, That's fact.