Tire Pressure

Sorry, but you don't understand tires or the tire industry. There are standards for a given size and type of tire. The pressure on the sidewall is the maximum inflation pressure for the tire, but not necessarily the correct inflatin pressure for any given application. There are industry standard load vs inflation pressure tables for any given type (p series, lt, etc.), size (P195/70R15, P335/65R16, etc.), and load rating (98, 105, etc.).

Sorry, but you are the one who is wrong. Your basic mistake is thinking that it is a "44 psi" tire. The 44 psi pressure is not the correct inflation pressure, it is the maximum inflation pressure. Ford doesn't recommend buying a 44 psi tire or a 35 psi tire. They recommended a certain size and load rating for the tires and a pressure appropriate for tires of that size and load rating. For a 2004 Taurus, the standard tire was a P215/60R16 94T. The P215/60R is the tire size. the "94" is the load rating. The "T" is the speed rating. The Ford pressure recommendation is appropriate for any P series tires of the correct size (215/60R16) and load rating (94 = 1477 lb). The Harmony tire in the OP happens to have a maximum pressure rating of 44 psi. The maximum load rating for this tire is 1477 lb (and it actually can support this weight with only 35 psi, the 44 psi maximum is to allow higher pressure recommendations for substained high speed operation). A 2004 Taurus has a curb weight of around 3400 lb and a maximumloaded weight of less than

4000 lbs, or less than 1000 lb per tire. I don't don't have a copy of the load inflation table fore this tire size with me today, but I am sure that the tries are rated to carry far more than 1000 lb each when inflated to 30 psi. One thing I did notice - the Haromony tires in the P215/60R16 size are only "S" rated tires (112 mph). The OE tires were T rated (118 mph).

Please study the situation before giving out more bad advice. Start educating yourself by reading the following references (I have copied information from the major US tire manufacturers):

"Recommended Pressure "Always inflate your tires to the recommended pressure listed by your vehicle's manufacturer. This information can be found in the owner's manual and often on a placard located in the vehicle's door jamb, inside the fuel hatch, or on the glove compartment door."

"Use the correct inflation pressure recommended by the vehicle manufacturer, not the pressure listed on the tire sidewall....." "....More than half of drivers -- 55 percent -- incorrectly believe that the correct inflation pressure is printed on the tire sidewall." - clearly they added this line for people like you!

"How much air should I put in my tires?

"Proper inflation is the single most important part of tire care. The inflation pressure on the side of the tire is the MAXIMUM operating pressure. It is not necessarily the right inflation for your vehicle. Always use the inflation recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. You can find it in your owner's manual, posted on the edge of the driver's door, on a door post or on the inside of the glovebox door."

- this is Firestones / Bridgestones site:

"Vehicle manufacturers list recommended tire pressures for original vehicle tires in the owner's manual or on a placard on the end of the driver's side door or in the glove box."

"The Proper Pressure ......

"There is no universal "right" pressure for all tires. The proper inflation level will depend on what tires you have, and it may even be different for your front and back tires. To find the correct pressure for your tires, look at the tire information placard that's mounted inside the frame of the driver's door, in the glove box or inside the fuel door. You can also get that information in your vehicle owner's manual and from your tire dealer."

Ed

Sometimes they match, sometimes they don't. The tires that came on my 2003 Expedition had a maximum pressure of over 50. The recommended pressure is

1. The maximum pressure listed on the sidewall is a maximum, not the correct pressue for any particualr application. Sometime (particularly with heavy trucks) the recommended pressure and the max pressure for the tires are the same.

Ed

What does the sticker inside your vehicle's door suggest?

My 2005 Ford Escape has a label inside the door that suggests 35psi, with stock tires that are rated at 44psi max.

My 2003 Honda Civic has a label inside the door that suggests 30psi, with stock tires that are rated at 44psi max.

Brad,

You need to go read the refernces I provided in another reply. You are wrong on this. No tire or vehicle manufactuer will agree with your position.

In my previous post, I quoted recommendations from all the major US tire manufacturer's. The following satatement is from the owners guide for my

2003 Expedition:

"You should carefully observe the recommended tire inflation pressure found on the safety compliance certification label attached to the left front door latch post pillar (a label may also be found on the fuel cap filler door). Failure to follow tire pressure recommendations can adversely affect the way your vehicle handles. Do not exceed the Ford Motor Company recommended pressure even if it is less than the maximum pressure allowed for the tire."

Notice that it says "Do not exceed the Ford Motor Company recommended pressure even if it is less than the maximum pressure allowed for the tire."

The following information came from the Owner's Guide for a 2004 Taurus

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". Inflation pressure: A measure of the amount of air in a tire. . Standard load: A class of P-metric or Metric tires designed to carry a maximum load at 35 psi [37 psi (2.5 bar) for Metric tires]. Increasing the inflation pressure beyond this pressure will not increase the tires load carrying capability. . Extra load: A class of P-metric or Metric tires designed to carry a heavier maximum load at 41 psi [43 psi (2.9 bar) for Metric tires]. Increasing the inflation pressure beyond this pressure will not increase the tires load carrying capability. .....

1. Maximum Permissible Inflation Pressure: Tire manufactures maximum permissible pressure and/or the pressure at which the maximum load can be carried by the tire. This pressure is normally higher than the manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure which can be found on either the tire label or certification label which is located on the structure by the trailing edge of the driver's door or the edge of the driver's door. The cold inflation pressure should never be set lower than the recommended pressure on the vehicle label.

The net is, the tire manufacturer's and the vehicle manufacturer's are unanimous - as long as you are using tires of the size and type that came on the car, follow the VEHICLE manufacturer's inflation pressure recommendations.

Ed

Tires do not increase 14psi in hot weather, so run 30 in a 44. Holy, this news group is insane. And you people offer advice? On a 44psi tire, I would run 41 to 42 psi year round. 2 to 3 psi increase is about what you can expect in hot weather. Maybe 5 max if it is really hot.

Brad, You need to go read the refernces I provided in another reply. You are wrong on this. No tire or vehicle manufactuer will agree with your position.

Re: Re: Tire Pressure Group: alt.autos.ford Date: Sat, Oct 1, 2005, 6:15am (EDT+4) From: snipped-for-privacy@msn.com (351CJ)

A big Ford truck. Bigger than the F150-250-350. Eric

Eric, The cabs inside and out and front end sheet metal and grill on and the engines and transmissions in the F-450 and F-550 are the same as the F-250/F-350. The only differences are with the massively larger frame, springs, brakes, wheels/tires & axels, equaling much higher weight carry and towing weight limits, in a truck that is essentially the same size as its lighter duty Superduty siblings. Now the F-650/F-750, now those are a much Bigger Ford truck than the F150-250-350-450-550.

Heavier trucks commonly match because the truck frequently carries the MAXIMUM load for the tire whereas, an automobile or light truck almost never caries the MAXIMUM load for the tire. Therefore, trucks use MAXIMUM inflation while cars and light trucks almost always specify a pressure less than MAXIMUM. If cars and light trucks were equipped with tires that required MAXIMUM inflation pressure to accommodate the load on them, they would be very small tires indeed. Don't be so stubborn. Go learn a little before you jump into the giving out advice that may get someone hurt or killed. Over inflated tires frequently do not handle well, ride well, wear well or, provide the best traction on wet roads. They can also become damaged easily under some conditions because they are not compliant enough to absorb physical impacts as they should. Excessive over inflation can be every bit as bad as under inflation.

Lugnut

Unless you have some good reason based on vehicle load, speed, tire wear change in tire size or load rating, go by the recommendations on the decal affixed to the vehicle or found in the owners manual. Overinflation will gain you nothing but an ill handling car that ride rough and irritates the hell out of you while rattling your teeth loose and may ultimately have other consequences. Enjoy your Michelins. They are great tires.

Lugnut

Re: Re: Tire Pressure Group: alt.autos.ford Date: Sun, Oct 2, 2005, 2:08am (EDT+4) From: snipped-for-privacy@msn.com (351CJ) "Eric Toline" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net... Re: Re: Tire Pressure Group: alt.autos.ford Date: Sat, Oct 1, 2005, 6:15am (EDT+4) From: snipped-for-privacy@msn.com (351CJ) "Eric Toline" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net... A big Ford truck. Bigger than the F150-250-350. Eric Eric, The cabs inside and out and front end sheet metal and grill on and the engines and transmissions in the F-450 and F-550 are the same as the F-250/F-350. The only differences are with the massively larger frame, springs, brakes, wheels/tires & axels, equaling much higher weight carry and towing weight limits, in a truck that is essentially the same size as its lighter duty Superduty siblings. Now the F-650/F-750, now those are a much Bigger Ford truck than the F150-250-350-450-550.

If you truly don't give a damn, do everyone a favor, and stop feeding people your misinformed bullshit when they ask a simple question...

You touched a sore point with me. For years I have been a Michelin drone. Whenever I needed replacement tires, I always bought Michelins. Lately I begun to think maybe I should look elsewhere. I have been less that thrilled with the last few Michelin tires (or BFGoodrich tires - a Michelin subsidiary) that I have purchased.

My 2003 Expedition came with Continental tires. They were OK for the first

50,000 miles, but began to get noisy, so I replaced them at around 55,000 miles with Michelin Cross-Terrains. I now wish I had the Continentals back (at least the Continentals with less than 50k miles). The Michelins ride OK and stay balanced, but they are noisy as heck - much noisier than the noisy Continentals I replaced and seem to have worse wet traction (just a feeling, no numbers to back it up).

My 2004 Thunderbird came with Michelins from Ford and the tires suck. I cannot keep them balanced and they appear to me to be gripless.

I also have a 2003 Saturn Vue with Bridgestone tires. These tires are much better than my other tires. Even at 37,000 miles they aren't noisy and I have only had to have them balanced once (they seem to stay balanced). To bad they are from Bridgestone / Firestone.

I do have an F150 with 8 year old Michelin LTX tires and those tires seem to be just fine (well except for the one I just replaced because I put a spike through the tread).

The last set of new BF Goodrich tires I had on an older Expedition (now long gone) were horrible.

I also bought a set of Michelin Pilot Sports for a Mustang GT I no longer own - they were not horrible, but at best they were no better than the Goodyear's that came on the car and they were certainly more expensive.

And finally, for those that can stand Consumer Reports, Michelins have not exactly shined in CR's recent tire comparisons. For instance the Cross Terrains like the ones I now have on my Expedition were rated 19 out of 22 in a November 2004 CR test (the Continentals that came on the vehicle were rated 20...). On the other hand Tire Rack Customers rank the Cross Terrains pretty well (5 out of 62), but then the people doing the ranking might be like me - Michelin drones.

So I guess the question is - Are Michelin still my best non-brainer option for tires, or should I look elsewhere? And if I look elsewhere for my next tire purchase (probably new tires for the Thunderbird), where should I look? I will not buy Firestone tires (and because of guilt by association - no Bridgestones either) no matter what rating may say (burn me once, shame on you, burn me three or four times, damn I must be stupid).

Ed

If you truly don't give a damn, do everyone a favor, and stop feeding people your misinformed bullshit when they ask a simple question...

I've been driving Goodyears for a lot of years now and haven't been disappointed once. I'm impressed by the TripleTreds on my '91 Grand Marquis.

[Contis] were OK for the first 50,000 miles, but began to get noisy

Somewhere around 40 or 50 thousand I start to wonder about the number of potholes and pieces of road debris my tires have slammed through, anyway. (Back when I did some off-roading I worried even earlier, though freeways might be worse since the obstacles have squarer edges and you're hitting them much harder.) This limits my desire to pay extra for a tire that promises extreme life in a treadwear sense.

I wonder if any testing agency has published "autopsy reports" on tires at various stages of a real-time or accelerated wear cycle that includes such forms of violence. It'd be interesting to see either cross sections or x-rays that show what is going on inside your tires as they get experienced.

--Joe

I have had nothing but Michelin for many years. My most recent set now have about 60,000 miles and still have decent tread left. They have also been very good in rain. We dont get much snow and ice here in Texas, so I can't speak to their performance under those conditions.

I have never had a complaint about the tires themselves. Never any out of round or balance problems.

Still, things can change. There are some very good Japanese tires now, and if I decided to change, I would review them carefully to be sure that I am still getting the quality and performance I want.

Sounds like a good plan. But what do you use for your source of information? I really don't trust Consumer Reports (I clearly have different agenda than CR when it comes to most things, particularly automitive related items). The Tire Rack ratings are interesting, but it seems to me that the ratings are little more than personal opinion based on a limited frame of reference (how many people actually have driven more than a couple of the tires in any category)?

One more thought comes to mind. Maybe Michelin tires are as good as they ever were and it is the roads that are crap. It seems like the roads around here are much worse than even 5 years ago.

Ed

information?

I have researched tires on a lot of different sites, including the Tire Rack.

Like you, CR doesn't assure me with its credibility.

I talk to the people at Discount Tires and ask their opinions, but don't take their recommendations as gospel. Have a local tire dealer here whom I know personally, and usually get good feedback from him. He hears all the complaints, comebacks, etc.

If I had to make the decision tomorrow, I would go straight back to Michelin, without hesitation. (And hope I am not sorry later.)