Toyota's Farley jumps to Ford to head marketing

The fact that you spell pussy with two $$ tells us that you already are one.

cordially, as always,

rm

Well you are exactly the sort of person Toyota created Lexus for. There was more of difference between the often derided Lincoln Versailles and a Ford Granada than between a Lexus ES350 and a V6 Top Level Camry. The big Lexus sedan is a unique and interesting vehicle - but not something I'd be interested in buying.

Resale value has more to do with perception than reality. The Lexus ES350 has exactly the same drive train as a V6 Camry. There is no reason to think it will last any longer.

I didn't say Ford didn't make thinly disguised models and sell them under other brands. The Fords and Mazda you mentioned are not as closely related as the ES350 and a Camry. The Fusion is derived from the Mazda 6 but is larger and has a different automatic transmission and other significant differences. The current Focus is actually based on a prior generation European Focus. Mazda had input into that design, but I don't think it is correct to say the current Focus is related to a Mazda 3 (might be better if it was). The current Ford 4 cylinders used in the Focus, Fusion, and Ranger are Mazda developed engines.

To be honest if I was to buy a Lexus the ES would not be my choice. I would prefer an IS or a GS Hybrid

I'm not saying it will last longer, drive train has nothing to do with luxury.

Its just because the "..After pedaling some of the Toyota stuff, selling Fords should be a breeze" to me is intriguing. Lexus remains the best selling import luxury (foreign and domestic) brand in the US and had great reviews even in Europe and beat the German brands.

I really hate to defend Toyota or Lexus since as I earlier mentioned, I am an Toyota owner but not a very satisfied customer. Maybe another member can do better than me in defending Toyota. If only my 07 Camry had a flawless shifting, then I would bow down to Toyota and recommend it to anyone I know. I do like what ford did with the Fusion that comes in AWD, I do hope that Toyota jumps into this AWD bandwagon in the midsized sedan category soon.

The GS sells in tiny numbers (fewer than 23K per year). The hybrid GS hardly sells at all (fewer than 81 last month). I guess exclusivity is worth something. The IS is a little more popular - around 56K per year). The biggestest selling Lexus models are trucks and SUVs, not cars. They do sell more cars than trucks (150,585 car and 94,071 Light Trucks in the US thru Sept 07). BMW sold 169,761 cars trhu September (not including mins or light trucks). So much for being the biggest seller of "luxury cars." They did outsell Mercedes in cars (MB sold 127087 car through September) and Cadillac (Caddillac sold 92,473 car through September). Lincoln hardly counts when it comes to Luxury cars (they only sold 52,227 cars through September 2007 in the US - Lincoln almost sold as many light trucks as car - 51,332 LTs through Spetember).

Shocks, spr "With a very comfortable ride, quiet interior, and lavish amenities, the ES provides a big luxury car feel and refinement in a trimmer package. It is quick yet sparing with fuel. Agility is not a strong suit, and the ES is not even remotely fun to drive. The few negatives include limited rear-seat head room and rearward visibility."

For the V-6 Camry:

"The Camry is capable, quiet, and well rounded in all test versions, but is not exciting to drive. Handling is sound, but not sporty. The ride is comfortable and the interior is roomy. All powertrains are refined and economical; the V6 XLE is very quick and the Hybrid combines good performance with great fuel economy."

If I am going to spend big bucks for a luxury car it will be a BMW or a Mercedes. At least they drive nicely. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Even Cadillac is more interesting to me than the Lexus vehicles. Only Lincoln has acheieve the level of boredom I associate with Lexus.

I don't understand why Toyota is having problems with the tranmsission. It is from the same family as the one used with the V-6 Fusions and no one ccomplains about the shifting of a Fusion.

Ed

Uhm, Not so, every luxury car "requires" "enough power". If you step on it and don't have enough "get up and go", it will not be a "luxury" car, period.

Did I miss something? Toyota Camry & Ford Fusion sharing a transmission??? Ford collaborates with Mazda, not Toyota, no?

My statement is applicable to the subject of two cars who share the same drivetrain, but one being a luxury brand. Now luxury and power is different. There is what you call a performance luxury sedan. And there are luxury vehicles which are limousines which is only for the passengers luxury and not the drivers.

you better go back in the thread, you're lost dude

camry & lexus es model maybe... (not sure which model)

Ford is buying the 6 speed automatic transmission sold in V6 Fusions from Aisin-Warner, a company mostly owned (and controlled) by Toyota. Toyota buys all its automatic transmissions from A-W (well since they mostly own A-W, I guess they are buying them from themselves). The Fusion 6 speed and the Camry 6 speed are from the same family. Ford also buys parts for the Escape/Mariner hybrid from A-W. But then there nothing new here, at times in the past Ford has even bought hydramatic automatics from GM and sold 3 speed manuals to GM.

See

Ed

Hum, thanks.

I'm lost Dude? I think that would be you...

Well any privately driven "luxury car", "performance luxury sedan" or not absolutely requires "enough power" to effortlessly go and stop otherwise it cannot be a luxury car.

Ok, isn't that what I meant, or are we not on the same boat?. The ES and and the V6 Camry share the same power train, the difference will be on the luxury items on the Lexus. Its true, "luxury" vehicles have that "get up and go" that you refer to. What would you consider enough power to be? Is a 0-60 mph of 6 or 7 secs is fine and anything higher than that is not enough power, thus less luxurious? Or anything faster than a Corolla is good enough for you. Comparing two luxury cars, would the slower car mean that it would be less luxurious than the other?

Basically being quicker and faster than lesser priced/appoined cars. Being able to walk away from the average shitbox comes to mind.

All else being equal, yes!

Well then you have to change your perception. Lexus ES 0-60 is 6.8 secs (lexus.com) Camry V6 6.5 secs by edmunds.com (6.1 by road and track) Quicker is not more luxurious.

Eye of the beholder... If you can't step on the pedal and ditch some punk in a cheap shitbox Camry who is screwing with you on the open road, you are hardly driving around in a luxury car.

I don't have to change my perception, regardless what Toyota and whoever else wants, I don' consider a Lexus a luxury car. A shitbox Camry with more options does not a luxury car make. The German Opel GT coupe was the "poor man's Corvette" and The Lexus is still the "poor man's luxury car".

Well yeah, can't argue with that

The MB E350 have the same 0-60 of the Camry of 6.5 secs. MB is 268Hp Camry is 268Hp. Top speed, I have no idea. No matter what open road, we all abide by the speed limit in the US. The C350 can go from 0-60 in 6.1 secs. Is the C class more luxurious than the E-Class? Oh and the IS350 can do better at 5.3 secs. Is the MB the rich man's luxury car? Then why is it the MB slower. These are numbers and not "eye of the beholder", as you said quicker is more luxurious all thing being equal.

If that is what you feel about the Lexus, its fine with me. Luxury cars have the getup and go, But faster is not necessarily more luxurious.

ahhhh

Ford may now take the Toyota marketing ploy.

Create a new brand name.

Market it as an expensive executive brand that stands for luxury and quality, but is lower priced than the real quality German vehicles.

Then just build the same old standard stuff in the same old factorys.

Lexus are not the poormans Mercedes, they are the semi-rich mans Camry!!!!!

LMFAO