Re: Is Ford Running on Empty?

Same difference. The Dodge has about 75 more torque and it still isn't enough because of the extreme weight. I was really surprised to see that it weighed so much. That is a little more than the weight of the huge Chevy Impalas from the early 70's.

Mike,

I don't know why you think it's apples to oranges.

Anyways, the old hemi 'Cudas were heavy cars -- 3800+ pounds. (The '68-'70 Chargers were lighter, if only by a bit.) So they had about the same amount of body mass to move as the new Hemi does.

Patrick

I can only assume you never owned one of those car if that is what you believe LOL

mike hunt

Obviously he never drove one. There is a hell of a difference between 350 cid, and 426 cid.

Ahh those were the days,Chrysler's 426 hemi's, Ford's 429 cobra jet ala 1970 Torino, and Chevy's '63 409 cid, and the later 427 cid engines, and last but not least, the '70 Buick StageI with the 455 cid, 510 ft pounds of torque, at 2,600 rpm.

Whitelightning

Those of us old enough to remember such stuff recall:

The 426 hemi was built to compete against the Ford and Chevy 427 engines in stock car races of the mid-60s. In order to qualify as a "stock" engine, a minimum of 500 had to be produced and installed in cars available to the public at dealerships. At the time, the Fed limited stock engine horsepower ratings to 425 hp, thus the 425 hp rating of the 426 hemi.

The problem was (or not really a problem) that many people that bought the original hemi from a dealership and put the car on a dyno were surprised and delighted that they actually produced as much as 550 hp as delivered. It also didn't take a lot of money or mods to tune these beasts up to around

600 hp.

BTW .... regarding the weight questions on the new Charger versus the old .... I have a '69 Charger R/T (440 not 426). Weight is 3,636 lbs.

Eisboch

Displacement differences are made up by fuel injection, superchargers and turbochargers, and the electronics systems that allow maximum spark advance to be used because of the knock sensors. Quite simply, the stock autos from the late 60's and early 70's were not producing as much power as these new cars.

Magazine test data that compares the old and new cars has repeatedly shown that the old cars were not actually as fast as many people think.

Can you take one of the new dodges, slap a set of 10 inch drag slicks, and a set of slapper bars on it and pull the front wheels off the ground? The 70 cuda's and challengers would do just that. with the 426 hemi , dual four barrels and four speed tranny. Stock off the show room floor turn 1/4 miles in the low 13's at 104-113 mph . Car and Driver tested the 2005 300 with the 5.7 and turned consistent 14.4 1/4 miles times, which is not a shabby time by any means, but it aint a low 13 ether, and the 2004 Pontiac GTO beats it at 13.3, with a 4.8 , again as tested by C&D.

The hemi is a good engine, but dodge is pushing it like its a 426, and it aint, and many buying it don't know no better any ways.

Whitelightning

The tests that I saw showed the Dodge SRT-8 Hemis turning the 1/4 mile in 13.4 sec @ 105 mph.

That is done with the tires that were on the vehicle when it left the dealer.

The SRT-8 is more powerful than just a regular Hemi equipped vehicle.

Tires!

Ed

Those things drove poorly, though, you have to admit if you've had the pleasure. 80/20 weight distribution isn't going to be the hot ticket, and they've all bit the dust. The Seville is still around, back to rear drive. I had a couple of Toronado daily drivers for years. Nice car, but drove like a pig.

I agree with the general direction of lymee's post - GM makes too many jellybean-type rental cars. Bad for their image, at least in my mind. Ford makes a lot of them too, to be fair. When the big 3 bought their rental car companies back years ago, I guess you could say there was an image cost to that.

I think you better just give up this whole line of reasoning.

I'll take 400 net horsepower over a 426 any day. Even if the superior performance of new Chryslers is all tires, I'll take it just because of the tires too. And the gas mileage, and the build quality, and the electrical system, and the air conditioning, and the body stiffness, and the handling, and the durability, and the emissions, and the seats, and the radio. Can't think of a thing about the old Hemis that was actually better. I never even liked the styling.

How about this? A new hemi Charger is worth what, about $35-$40K? A '60s vintage Mopar in decent shape with a hemi is worth well over $100k.

Eisboch

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:30:44 -0400, Joe rearranged some electrons to form:

Ford no longer owns Hertz, but they are providing these:

I was in Boston this week, and Hertz had FOUR of them on their lot. I would have rented one, except they wanted $200/day, and I would have had trouble justifying that on my expense report. :-(

Next to women, this is the next best thing

Imports sell to rental car companies too, they are just not as successful at getting many fleets to buy their vehicles. The Korean do a better job of doing that. The Koreans have a larger share of the fleet courier cars business than the domestics, Europeans or the Japs. ;)

mike hunt

The trick was to get one, and the woman would follow. When my one neighbor ask were was my 2005 GT convertible was. I told him I sold it because I was picking up a 2007 in a week or two. He asked my why an eighty year old guy like me keeps buying Mustang GT convertibles. I told him don't tell my wife, but I'm picking up your stuff. He said you are? Sure I had this babe after me the other day and she could not have been a day over 55 ;)

mike hunt