for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...

Yeah verily. One of the sludge issues was caused by dealers setting up a stall aimed at just oil changes, sucking oil out with a small tube inserted through the dip-stick sheath. That last pint never was drained.

Another issue not addressed in this thread is driving patterns. For a few years I was overseas and my wife was driving my Pontiac with a 454. All one or two mile trips. Engine never reached a proper operating temperature. Car suffered with constant crankcase dilution (with the oil level crawling UP the dipstick between changes. 3K wasn't often enough.

For cars with large engines and short trips, synthetic oil may be a mistake since synthetics tend to be hygroscopic. A better choice is a good petroleum based oil.

From the (G37) maintenance schedule: "Infiniti developed Premium Maintenance for owners who want the ultimate in preventative maintenance." What they call Schedule ! Is the "severe" schedule with 3750 miles oil changes and checks. There is no peril in not following the "premium" schedule on an Altima or Maxima (unless having that extra cash in your wallet constitutes peril).

I'm sure that is true, but I was talking about an even worse scenario in which the "what the customer doesn't know won't hurt them" (at least until it's too late for it to be tracked back to us) philosophy of business is in play and the customer is billed for the oil change that is not performed. I caught the local Chrysler dealer at that when she took he brand new Concorde in for its first oil and filter change. She was charged for it, yet the original factory filter was on it (painted flat black with "ORIGINAL FACTORY FILTER" paint stamped on it) and the oil was exactly the same level and color as when she took it in.

There was another episode on a Jeep my daughter bought that was supposed to have been "religiously" serviced (oil and filter changed every 3000 miles) for the previous owner at their local Amerilube (their next door neighbor was the manager). Funny thing was that when I went to do the first oil change on it, the filter on it was Mopar brand, and had heavy rust all around the un-painted seam at its base.

Sarcasm,right? :)

oops - meant to say "my elderly mother" there.

"her" not "he"

In too much of a hurry.

As does the fact they both agree that as little as 3000 miles may be appropriate for short trips, extreme cold, oe extreme heat.

Evidence that bulk oil is inferior, if it is the same brand and grade.

Jeff

Aimed at the same people who have always used "premium" fuel, simply because "it's premium". Also, "if it costs more, it MUST be better."

There are those here and elsewhere who would tell you, "if you can't afford the service, then you can't afford the car." They use that to defend a Lexus ES350 oil change costing $150 compared to the $30 oil change on the same engine over at the Toyota dealer.

Those people are defending their burning need to BELIEVE.

And Infiniti has chosen, brilliantly, to cater to people who WANT cash to leave their pockets. That cash is GOING to leave their pockets no matter what; Infiniti figured it might as well go into Infiniti's coffers as to Starbucks for a $5.00 cup of coffee.

That's the rub. It comes out of a tank. Neither you, nor the service station who uses it, KNOWS for sure what brand the oil REALLY is - except for the lube shops that are owned by a particular oil company. And then you don't know for sure what line of oil they are actually using. Every oil company has their "economy grade" and their "premium" at the very least.

I know for a FACT that sometimes when you order (as a garage) a certain brand of premium multigrade oil from a distributor you do NOT get either that brand or their premium oil.

When you use packaged oil you KNOW what you are getting.

I'm NOT saying that bulk oil is in any way necessarily inferior - I used to use bulk oil a LOT in my service station and dealership days. I generally bought only directly from the oil company - when at the service station from the oil company that owned the fuel tanks - Texaco , Shell ,, Esso, etc, and at the dealerships from the single line distributor for either Castrol, Quaker State, Kendall, etc or the oil companies listed above.

When the dealership started buying from a large industrial lubricant company that distributed Quaker State, Valvoline, Castrol, and several other lines we never knew for sure what was in the tank. Can you say "brand of the week"?

The only way to know what oil you were REALLY getting was to order Kendall GT-1 - none of the "competitors'" oils were that distinctive BLUE colour!!!!

Well, at least you think you do. Further, when you get expensive oil out of a bottle, who knows if that is really what you're buying, partilcularly at a place where you're not the one opening the bottle.

FWIW, many oil processors "trade" refinery capacity. Here in Alberta, Esso Petroleum Canada processes lube oils for Husky Oil Marketing. As long as a motor oil bears an API rating......

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote

Last December I bought a new car, trading my 3 year old with 67000 trouble free miles. I do believe in proper maintenance but I'm not going to follow the dealer's recommendations. When I bought the car they gave me a service "menu" with the miles, work to be performed, and cost. Following their schedule I'd have spent an additional $2200 in that three years. As for trade in value, they never looked at the car so it was not something that had payback in resale.

What did you do about it, Bill, and what was the result? This sort of chicanery has been found at dealerships, quick change franchises, and independent shops. I hope it isnt widespread, but it DOES happen.

At our company's fleet garage, we bought "bulk" oil, but it came packaged in 55 gallon drums. It was never delivered in a tank truck and pumped into an open bulk tank.

This level of "bulk" was substantially cheaper than buying bottled oil, and the risk of contamination was less.

In my mother's situation, I raised hell at the dealership. I did allow them to do the oil and filter change along with an apology. I do all of the work on my own cars, so it's not like I could tell them I wasn't going to do business with them again. And when the opportunity arises in the community, I tell them about what happened. For unrelated reasons, my mother sold that car just a very few months later, so what to do about her future oil changes became moot.

On the Jeep that my daughter bought, I let the previous owner know that her wonderful next door neighbor that managed the neighborhood Amerilube had been ripping her off for years and suggested that she check the other vehicles she owned that had been serviced there. Of course she could have been giving me a complete line of B.S. the whole time, but I doubt a person lieing about it would have made up the bit about the next door neighbor being the manager of the Amerilube that supposedly had done all the oil/filter changes. If she was telling the truth, hopefully the next door neighbor lost some business and reputation (personal and business) over it.

so fix the damned thing! that's not a function of temperature, that's a function of excess fuel.

that's a bullshit underinformed differentiation. all modern motor oils are detergent. it's the detergent that's hygroscopic, so you can't avoid it.

besides, synthetics flow better when cold, thus they are a better choice, not worse.

and there we have it folks - always check this stuff.

oils, especially conventionals, break down and start to lose their ability to hold contaminants in suspension after a while - mostly as a function of time and temperature. conventionals more quickly than synthetics. this is why you /should/ check and change your oil.

but with monitoring and use of quality lubricants, you can safely use significantly extended service intervals. i eat my own dogfood:

amen, brother.

with conventional oil....