Now your next project is to judge the context of each post (means you'll
have to read much of each thread) to see if "wrong" was used to identify
intentional deception or if there was an unintentional error in fact. :^)
Phillip, since you have a computer, you should be able to search the web for
a free dictionary and find the definition of "wrong." There are multiple
meanings of the word and I used one of the accepted meanings:
"the state, position, or fact of being or doing wrong: as a : the state of
being mistaken or incorrect"
I make the distinction in order to limit condemnation to the statement,
rather than condemning the man for his statement ... which was not intended
to mislead. The word "wrong" is commonly abused in this way in American
English. I also know Huw to be MUCH better versed on matters lubrication
oils than what I have read thusfar from you. Do make every effort to catch
up to Huw. :^)
I did not condemn the man for his statement. But pretty soon I am going to
condemn you for ignoring the accepted definition of "wrong" (at least one of
the accepted definitions). Given that there are multiple accepted
definitions, and given the context of this forum, it was obvious which
definition I was using. There is not much relationship between morality and
ones knowledge of oil (although there are few slimy people who post here).
I may not be an expert on oil like you city slickers, but I am pretty good
Then the lower 'w' rating to qualify must be 10w not 5w.
This is not an issue in Europe because consumers have enough sense to
realise that lighter viscosity oils are more fuel efficient without a
starburst to tell them. After all, economy is a rather higher priority this
side of the pond.
Huw, you do not have your facts straight on this.
The energy conserving label is a function of meeting certain tests and
is not automatic for a given viscosity range. You will find, for
example, that most of the "High Mileage Engine" oils such as Valvoline
Maxlife are generally not labelled Energy Conserving even in the 5W-30
As far as the Europeans being so much more environmentally aware, can
you explain why all of the 12 cylinder automobiles made in the world
today (which get horrible fuel economy) come from English, German and
You turn a blind eye to Ford and Chrysler V10s in trucks (looser emission
levels than cars) and Vipers? Fact is, the Europeans and Asians have been
more fuel consumption conscious than We, predating WWII. You might also
look at who has made small high speed diesels workable and increasingly
clean. Wasn't GM !!
Actually I think GM has built some nice Diesels - in Europe.
They are nice enough that Honda is swapping V-6s in the US
for Diesels in Europe.
And I am not sure what you mean by "looser" emissions
standards for trucks. There are all sors of categories for
trucks, but they all have to meet standards. The light-duty
truck standards are pretty much the same as for cars. The
heavy light-duty truck standards are somewhat looser, but at
least the Ford V-10 qualify for LEV certification (see
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: GF-4 Based Oil vs. GF-3 - What is the difference?
It seems to me that you like to cut out any supporting information or text
that might contradict your declarations. It is certainly not as simple as
you like to make it seem. California has different rules than the Feds and
different manufacturers have different levels of achievement. The Ford V-10
has very good emisson numbers. In fact i think it can be argued that it is
more enviromentally friendly than certain Toyota engines. The EPA Green
Vehicle rating for many Toyota is not all that outstanding. Certain 4
cylinder and 6 Camrys are particualrly bad, although some others are very
good. See http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-TOYOTA-Camry-05.htm . Compare
this to a midpsized US SUV, the Saturn Vue -
http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-SATURN-Vue-05.htm . Of course some small
SUVs are bad, like http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-TOYOTA-RAV4-05.htm .
You might as well add that cars of various years have been held to different
standards as well.
As for Diesels, I would suggest the Europeans are probably the leaders in
small enviromentally friedly diesels.
The statement I was responding to (if you care to scroll back) was a comment
about how Europe was the only portion of the world still building
multi-multi cylindered engines for passenger cars in spite of Europe
building most of it's cars with an sharper eye on fuel consumption than
American manufacturers. To this I brought up a couple of V10s "We" make
currently and their applications. I stand by the emission standards being
more lax for truck versions than cars. That there are some exceptions does
not disprove the rule.
For export mainly. The vast majority of European cars are less than 2litre
with fuel efficient diesel engines taking around 50% of the market in
several regions. If you travel in Europe you will know that the price of
fuel forces economy to be a high priority notwithstanding the sales of large
SUV's. In fact I own several of these and my latest Range Rover travels 30
miles on each Imperial gallon of diesel which is better than I used to get
from a Ford Fiesta 1300 thirty years ago and as good as a Golf GTi in the
mid Eighties. Most petrol family cars now average 40mpgUK with diesels, even
large ones by our standards, such as Ford Mondeo 2litre or GM/Vauxhall
Vectra with the new Fiat built diesels, averaging more than 50mpgUK.
Cash millionaires may run V12 engined cars if they choose but they are very
few in number.
Typical of Europe. The lucky few royalty and hyper-wealthy live large
while the masses struggle under opressive taxes and believe that in so
doing they are being morally superior.
Yes Europe has far more diesel vehicles on the road ... because European
vehicle emissions standards continue to be looser than US standards as
they have been since the 1960s when emissions standards first came on
Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.