Oil Weight??????????

You can get 5-30 in the Motorcraft synthetic blend for the same money and not use whatever the hell Walmart has those guys putting in that container for oil. If its like Fram filters I would pass. Most of the cheap merchandise at Walmart is just that, you get what you pay for.

The Motorcraft blend is very good oil. The difference between 5-20 and 5-30 is minimal and there are probably Ford mechanics that use it. I use it in hot weather.

I would use whatever Ford recommends and stick with the Motorcraft 5W20.

Jeff

Several years ago I read an interesting article in a trade magazine for the oil change trade: basically; Why did Ford change from 5W30 to 5W20? Short answer...5W20 provides 1% (ONE PERCENT!) better gas mileage....with (supposed) no additional wear.

Officially...5W30 is only suggested if you can't find 5W20. but that same engine was spec'd for 5W30 in the past.

Well....do you think they actually changed the bearing clearances on the various engines that were once spec'd for 5W30 and now spec'd for

5W20...I doubt it! (though I have no evidence either way).

I've used BMW (Castrol) Synthetic 5W30 in a 99 Taurus 3.0 Duratec and an 03 F150 4.2 (spec'd 5W20)for 4+ years with no complaints.

Now, would I put any off-brand oil ( SUPER TECH???) in a 'good' car without knowing who made it and to what standards...NO...that's false economy. either buy the Ford 5W20 or a quality 5w30 (dino or syn)....and still change every 3K....cuz like most of us, you are probably severe service .

--Don

Don Byrer KJ5KB Radar Tech & Smilin' Commercial Pilot Guy Glider & CFI wannabe kj5kb-at-hotmail.com

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..." "Watch out for those doves..."

It is said that 5W20 exist for CAFE standards only. Ford's recommended 5w20 is a synthetic blend to tolerate the heat in current engines. 5W20 is great for quick lubrication during startup and warmup. There should be no problem using it. I have always used 5W30 in my 3.0 engines. The first 3 had well over 250K miles when the cars were sold or traded. The current Sable is over 90K with no problems. The 3.0 is about a bulletproof as any engine on the market. My only problems with the engine have been a couple of water pumps and thermostats, and an oil pan gashet.. If it were not for my wife having no respect for a car during wakeup/warmup before hitting the throttle, I would probably use 10W30 like I use in my trucks. I would not use anything heavier unless it is a heavy drinker. You won't go wrong with either weight unless you live in a pretty cold climate.

Lugnut

Wrong. Most of us are not severe service. You don't need to change your oil every 3k mi. Change it according to the owner's manual.

Jeff

Read the disclaimer in the owners manual carefully... most of us are, indeed, severe service. Ideal conditions cover such a small window that few can hope to be included.

At the same time, "brand name" lube oils are formulated to meet or exceed design requirements and there is a safety margin built in.... It's not like our engines will implode if we fudge an oil change for a bit.... At the same time, the oil change is the ideal time to inspect these machines for any developing concerns.... Some might think that Fords use of the QC550 form is a bit anal.... For my part, I follow this when servicing my own vehicles... since then, I have never had any sort of failure leave me stranded, waiting or performing any task not scheduled.

Changing the oil early is financially restrictive.... changing the oil too late may have ramifications.... changing the oil on time is "safe".

Good maintenance isn't driving from one breakdown to the next.... and I abhor driving a car that isn't "right"....

Please stop top-posting. It is poor manners and makes it harder to follow a thread.

I did. I am not severe service. Where is says dusty conditions, it does not mean driving down a dusty road once in a while to go to the beach. It means living on a dusty road and driving on it often.

Here is what Ford calls "special operation conditions:"

Towing a trailer or carrying heavy loads . Extensive idling and/or driving at low-speeds for long distances . Driving in dusty conditions . Off-road operation . Use of E85 fuel 50% of the time or greater (flex fuel vehicles only)

And off-road conditions doesn't mean parking the car on the grass for the country fair a few times, either.

The main reason why people talk about 3000 mi oil changes is so that mechanics can make more money.

Yet, you can inspect cars without changing oil at the same time. And you perform other maintainence, like rotating tires, too, without changing oil.

Changing the oil and filter too early also means that until the little holes in the filter are closed up, there will be more dirt in the filter. And you risk leaving the filler plug or filter loose or another mistake that will result in engine damage.

Jeff

One thing that's interesting to me is that when Ford went to the 5w20 oil they had a list of engine that they said should start using it. They also had a shorter list of engines where they said it should not be used. So the OLD oil was suitable for ALL the engines but the NEW oil was only suitable for SOME of the engines. What does that tell you???? It tells me you are better off sticking with the 30 weight oils unless that 1% increase in mpg is more important to you then engine lubrication.

bending the gear..."

Wouldn't that 1% in mpg also indicate less engine friction, which is, I think, a good thing? Less engine friction = less engine wear.

Do you have a link for the list of cars that are recommended for the 5w20 oil?

Jeff

I use 5W20 in my SuperCrew.... I can't tell if I get better fuel consumption or what. Any temperature extremes I am subject to are on the cold side.

Some considerations... Toyota has had a concern with engine sludging..... I am told that this was a concern with internal oil passages being too close to exhaust manifolds.... I haven't heard of any Ford engines with this concern but.......

I certainly can't see any real harm coming from switching to 5W30..... but neither can I see any harm in using what the engineers recommend.

What I have seen.... people deviate from recommendations and, when things go wrong, it isn't the deviation that was bad... it is assumed that the car is bad.... Call me an old fool....

Get back on the lot and stop telling MASTER TECHNICIANS how much you don't know.

If I am incorrect, why don't you help us learn by citing relevant and authoritative websites that will provide us information that is trustworthy?

Your insult doesn't do it.

Jeff

It's not "wear" friction, it's just the work it takes to pump the oil around so while you gain that 1% you don't change the wear any, at least not from the change from 30 to 20. However, it is very likely IMHO, that the newer oil is not sufficiently robust to prevent wear in some of the critical high surface pressure areas like the cam and lifter contact points on non-roller lifters. From what I've read this is an area that puts some of the highest stress on the oil. The new

5w20 is not only lower viscosity, but it almost assuredly has less of the critical anti-wear additives in it that prevent cam wear. The lowered the additive amounts to reduce the chances of fouling the catalytic converter. They are juggling a lot of competing goals with these new oils and in some ways they are making them "not as good" as the older oils.

No, I saw it once in the Explorer Newsgroup a couple years ago. It's probably googlable.

OK, my 1996Ford Duratec manual says 3W30 recommended, 10W30 acceptable for moderate to hot climates (warmer than 0F) So the cold cranking lubrication issues above 0F with a 10W base oil not a problem. I can and WILL use 10W40.

MAXIMUM oil change interval is 5000 miles or six months for "normal schedule" MAXIMUM change inteval for severe duty is 3000 miles or 3 months. NOTE - BOTH are MAXIMUM.

Under "What maintenance shedule do you follow" it states "Follow normal schedule if the vehicle is driven in the folllowing conditions : The vehicle is driven more than ten miles on a daily basis AND NONE of the conditions noted for severe duty apply"

Extreme conditions incluse towing trailer, car top carrier, severe dust, extensive idling,trips of less than 10 miles in cold weather.

Note - there is no "Recommended oil cnange interval" in the factory service manual. There is a MAXIMUM oil change interval of FIVE THOUSAND MILES. The MAXIMUM under extreme conditions is THREE THOUSAND MILES.

I will change my oil "according to the manual" At 12 years of age it has accumulated something like 112000 km (69,000 miles, give or take) for an average of less than 6000 miles a year (9333km per year) The car leaves the driveway at least an average of 4 times a week. That means at 115 miles a week average, the car goes an average of at most 28 miles per day. Since a fair number of those trips (at least one a month) is significantly farther than that, it is safe to say there are MANY trips of less than 10 miles (20 mile daily round trip)

- putting the car quite solidly in the grey area between "severe" and "normal"

It never goes more than 3000 miles or 6 months on an oil change.And it holds 5.5 US quarts per change.

Actually most of us are not operating our car in a manner that requires the severe service schedule, no matter what Jiffy Lube would like you to believe. Here is what Ford has to say:

SPECIAL OPERATING CONDITIONS

Items Needing Special Attention

If you operate your Ford/Lincoln/Mercury primarily in one of the more demanding "Special Operating Conditions" listed below, you will need to have some items maintained more frequently. If you only occasionally operate your vehicle under these conditions, it is not necessary to perform the additional maintenance. For specific recommendations, see your dealership service advisor or qualified service professional.

*Towing a trailer or using a camper or car-top carrier Every 3,000 miles or 3 months Change engine oil and replace oil filter .....

*Extensive idling and/or low-speed driving for long distances as in heavy commercial use such as delivery, taxi, patrol car or livery Every 3,000 miles, 3 months or 200 hours of engine operation Change engine oil and replace oil filter .....

*Operating in dusty conditions such as unpaved or dusty roads Every 3,000 miles or 3 months Change engine oil and replace oil filter .....

*Use of E85 50% of the time or greater (flex fuel vehicles only) Every 3,000 miles or 3 months Change engine oil and replace oil filter ....

How many people primarily operate their vehicles in one of the more demanding "Special Operating Conditions?" Not many. I know I don't.

Ed

Jim,

I usually agree with you, but if you read the maintenance schedule that comes with a Ford it is pretty clear that most of us are not operating our vehicles in a severe environment.

SPECIAL OPERATING CONDITIONS

Items Needing Special Attention

If you operate your Ford/Lincoln/Mercury primarily in one of the more demanding "Special Operating Conditions" listed below, you will need to have some items maintained more frequently. If you only occasionally operate your vehicle under these conditions, it is not necessary to perform the additional maintenance. For specific recommendations, see your dealership service advisor or qualified service professional.

*Towing a trailer or using a camper or car-top carrier Every 3,000 miles or 3 months Change engine oil and replace oil filter .....

*Extensive idling and/or low-speed driving for long distances as in heavy commercial use such as delivery, taxi, patrol car or livery Every 3,000 miles, 3 months or 200 hours of engine operation Change engine oil and replace oil filter .....

*Operating in dusty conditions such as unpaved or dusty roads Every 3,000 miles or 3 months Change engine oil and replace oil filter .....

*Use of E85 50% of the time or greater (flex fuel vehicles only) Every 3,000 miles or 3 months Change engine oil and replace oil filter ....

How many people primarily operate their vehicles in one of the more demanding "Special Operating Conditions?" Not many. I know I don't.

The list ws published in TSB 02-01-09 (which replaced TSB 01-4-7)

Engine Oil - Oil Recommendations/Applications Article No.

02-1-9 01/21/02 ENGINE - ENGINE OIL - RECOMMENDED APPLICATIONS FOR SAE 5W-20 AND SAE 5W-30 MOTOR OILS - GASOLINE AND FLEXIBLE FUEL VEHICLES ONLY FORD: 1992-2002 CROWN VICTORIA 1993-1994 TEMPO 1993-1997 THUNDERBIRD 1993-2002 ESCORT, MUSTANG, TAURUS 1995-2000 CONTOUR 1998-2002 ESCORT ZX2 2000-2002 FOCUS 1993-1996 BRONCO 1993-1997 AEROSTAR 1993-2002 E SERIES, F-150, RANGER 1995-2002 WINDSTAR 1997-1999 F-250 LD 1997-2001 EXPLORER 1997-2002 EXPEDITION 1999-2002 SUPER DUTY F SERIES, SUPER DUTY F-53 STRIPPED CHAS. 2000-2002 EXCURSION 2001-2002 ESCAPE LINCOLN: 1991-2002 TOWN CAR 1993-1998 MARK VIII 1993-2002 CONTINENTAL 2000-2002 LS 1998-2002 NAVIGATOR MERCURY: 1992-2002 GRAND MARQUIS 1993-1994 TOPAZ 1993-1997 COUGAR 1993-1999 TRACER 1993-2002 SABLE 1995-2000 MYSTIQUE 1999-2002 COUGAR 1997-2001 MOUNTAINEER This article is being republished in its entirety to update the vehicle models, engines and years affected. NOTE PLEASE REFER TO THE VEHICLE APPLICATION LIST LATER IN THIS TSB FOR A COMPLETE LIST OF VEHICLES AFFECTED BY THIS TSB. ISSUE Ford Motor Company now recommends SAE 5W-20 viscosity grade for servicing most gasoline and flexible fueled vehicles. ACTION All 2001 and 2002 vehicles where SAE 5W-20 is specified should be serviced at the recommended oil change intervals using SAE 5W-20. This oil is an improved formulation to improve fuel economy. Testing has validated this viscosity grade can be used in many previous model year vehicles. It is recommended ALL vehicles on the following Vehicle Application Listing be service with SAE 5W-20. All 2001-2002 vehicles other than those listed in the "Exception 2001 Vehicles" or "Exception 2002 Vehicles" chart are being filled with SAE 5W-20 motor oil at the factory and should also be serviced with SAE 5W-20 oil.

Veh. App. Listing Approved For SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil

1993-1996 1.9L Escort/Tracer 1995-2000 2.0L Zetec Contour/Mystique 1999-2002 2.0L Cougar 1997-2002 2.0L Escort/Tracer 1998-2002 2.0L Escort ZX2 2000-2002 2.0L Focus 2001-2002 2.0L Escape 1993-1997 2.3L Ranger 1993-1994 2.3L Mustang 1993-1994 2.3L Tempo/Topaz 1998-2001 2.5L Ranger 1995-2000 2.5L Contour/Mystique 1999-2002 2.5L Cougar 2001-2002 3.0L 4V Escape 1996-2001 3.0L 4V Taurus/Sable 1993-2002 3.0L (Vulcan) Aerostar/Ranger, Taurus/Sable (Flexible Fuel and Gas) 1995-2000 3.0L (Vulcan) Windstar 1993-1994 3.0L (Vulcan) Tempo/Topaz 2000-2002 3.0L 4V Lincoln LS 1995-2002 3.8L Windstar 1993-1997 3.8L Taurus/Sable, ^Thunderbird/Cougar, Continental 1994-2002 3.8L Mustang 2002-2002 3.9L 4V Lincoln LS 1997-2002 4.2L (SPI) F-150 (under 8500 GVW only), E-Series 1996-2002 4.6L 2V Mustang 1992-2002 4.6L Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis 1991-2002 4.6L Town Car 1994-1997 4.6L 2V Thunderbird/Cougar 1996-2002 4.6L 4V Mustang Cobra 1995-2002 4.6L 4V Continental 1993-1998 4.6L 4V Mark VIII 1997-2002 4.6L 2V Triton F-150/250 (under 8500 GVW only), E-Series, Expedition 1993-1999 4.9L E-Series, F-Series 1993-1995 5.0L Mustang/Mustang Cobra 1993-1993 5.0L Thunderbird/Cougar 1997-2001 5.0L Explorer/Mountaineer 1993-1996 5.0L E-Series, F-Series, Bronco 2000-2002 5.4L Excursion 1998-2002 5.4L 2V/4V Navigator 1997-2002 5.4L 2V F-1501250 (under 8500 GVW only), Expedition, E-Series, E-350 Chassis/RV/Cutaway 1993-1997 5.8L F-Series, Bronco 1993-1996 5.8L E-Series 2000-2002 6.8L Excursion 1997-2002 6.8L E-Series, E-350 Chassis/RV/Cutaway 1999-2002 6.8L Super Duty F-Series 250 HD/350/450/550 Motorhome 1993-1998 7.5L All Vehicles NOTE FOR 1993 THROUGH 1998 MODEL YEAR FFV USE XO-10W30-FFV. NOTE THE "EXCEPTION 2001-2002 VEHICLES" SHOULD BE SERVICED WITH SAE 5W-30 MOTOR OIL

Exception 2001 Vehicles

3.3L Villager 3.9L Lincoln LS 4.0L Ranger, Explorer/Mountaineer, Explorer Sport, and Explorer Sport Trac

Exception 2002 Vehicles

2.0L HP Zetec SVT Focus 3.3L Villager 4.0L Ranger, Explorer/Mountaineer, Explorer Sport, and Explorer Sport Trac

NOTE IF VEHICLE IS NOT LISTED IN THIS APPLICATION, SAE 5W-30 OIL IS RECOMMENDED. REFER TO TSB 99-8-16.

Parts Block OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: 99-8-16 SUPERSEDES: 01-4-7 WARRANTY STATUS: INFORMATION ONLY OASIS CODES: 401000, 490000, 497000, 499000

**********************

The 2006/07 4.0L V-6 still requires 5W30 Oil

***********************

The following Q & A's were originally posted to the Mustang newsgroup several years ago:

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS REGARDING MOTOR OIL .... [ info on ATF deleted ]

Q. Why did Motorcraft release SAE 5W-20 motor oil?

A. It was the right thing to do for the consumer and for the environment. It was one of Ford's first steps in improving the fuel economy of our SUVs by 25% by the 2005 calendar year. SAE 5W-20 improves fuel consumption by approximately 0.6 percent. For the 2001 fleet, this amounts to reducing fuel usage by more than 21 million gallons per year. This reduction in gasoline consumption leads to a reduction in carbon dioxide emissions by 190,000 metric tons per year, which is equivalent to taking nearly 23,100 cars and trucks off the road each year.

Q. Is there really a difference in quality between 5W-20 and 5W-30?

A. It is important to separate the differences in viscosity grade, and also the differences in the performance standards set by the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) and the accompanying American Petroleum Institute (API) performance categories to answer this question.

First, SAE 5W-20 oils are slightly less viscous at operating temperature than SAE 5W-30 oils. This reduction in viscous drag contributes to reduced friction in the engine and thus improved fuel economy for an SAE

5W-20.

Second, there are differences between the present ILSAC GF-2 standard (GF stands for gasoline fueled) and the soon to be commercialized GF-3 standard. The performance of a GF-3 oil will be significantly improved over a GF-2 oil. When Motorcraft released it's SAE 5W-20 formulation we wanted it to perform at the GF-3 level; but the GF-3 spec had not been finalized, so we 'guesstimated' what GF-3 would look like. In so doing we doubled the length of the standard dynamometer Sequence IIIE test (which duplicates high temperature trailer towing) which increases wear protection and reduces oil thickening. While GF-3 also improves on the standard GF-2 Sequence IIIE test, it went nowhere near as far as Ford did. This provides Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 with a significant increase over 'standard' GF-3 oils, which most SAE 5W-30 oils will meet.

Taking all this into account, the Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 will be a significant improvement over most SAE 5W-30 oils.

Q. Does the difference in price between Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 and SAE

5W-30 really reflect a better oil?

A. Yes. The better base oils, and increased additives such as friction modifiers and anti-oxidants used to formulate for the performance levels in the SAE 5W-20 do cost more, but reflect the significant increase in performance.

Q. What Ford and Lincoln/Mercury vehicles use SAE 5W-20 oil?

A. Approximately 80% of 2001 models should be serviced with SAE 5W-20 oils. By 2003 model year all Ford and Lincoln Mercury vehicles will be filled with SAE 5W-20 at the factory. But there are a significant number of older vehicles, some as old as 1991 models where Ford now recommends servicing with SAE 5W-20. Refer to the chart listed in Technical Service Bulletin Article No. 01-4-7 for details of which older models should use SAE 5W-20 and for the 2001 'exception' models which should continue to use SAE 5W-30.

Q. What happens if someone uses SAE 5W-20 in older vehicles?

A. As stated before some older vehicles have been approved for SAE

5W-20. However, there are many older vehicles not covered by TSB 01-4-7, and Ford is presently testing these to determine whether durability and performance would be compromised if SAE 5W-20 was used. Until this testing is successfully completed (and a TSB is published to this effect), it is not recommended using SAE 5W-20 in an older model unless specifically mentioned in TSB 01-4-7.

Q. Is Motorcraft the only brand for SAE 5W-20 motor oil?

A. No. Although SAE 5W-20 is not yet a popular viscosity grade, major marketers including Pennzoil, Quaker State, Valvoline, Exxon and others have either already begun marketing an SAE 5W-20 or have plans to do so. Customers should find this viscosity grade increasingly available in coming months, including at some retail outlets.

Q. Will SAE 5W-20 provide longer oil change intervals?

A. At the present time Ford recommends no change to the existing drain interval for SAE 5W-20. However, Ford is investigating allowing longer drain intervals since the performance level of Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 is significantly better than today's GF-2 oils.

Q. Why does Wal-Mart have Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 so much cheaper than dealers can now buy it?

A. Oil and Filter change is the number one Do-It-Yourself repair. Many Ford Motor Company customers are avid Do-It-Yourselfers. Some may purchase required products from our franchised dealerships, however, most prefer to purchase products available at mass merchandisers. If our product is not available they will buy other brands available at these retailers. Ford Motor Company has an obligation to the EPA to ensure all of our customers have access to this new oil and Wal-Mart is one of several retailers carrying Motorcraft products. Wal-Mart bought several truckloads of Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 at the original introductory price. These original quantities are still available at Wal-Mart. As Wal-Mart re-orders Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 in the future they will purchase it at the increased price.

[ ATF Info Deleted ]

The use of 5w20 was mandated by manufacturers to get their overall fleet mileage up to comply with mileage regulations .

I have always used 5w30 in my vehicles (synthetic ) summer and winter.As a matter of fact syntheic does not even thicken until ambient reaches around -45*F.(Mobil 1)

I am in an area which is predominantly cool or cold 9 months of the year.(Ontario, Canada)

The higher # of the oil has absolutely no bearing on the cold start characteristics of the oil.

The lower # is what determines the start-up viscosity of the oil, when cold.

When the engine gets to operating temperature then the long chain polymers act like a #30 oil.

In my opinion ? you`re better off with 5w30 because the slightly heavier weight of the oil gives better protection then 5w20 when the engine is hot.

Can you back up this opinion with evidence that engines are better protected with 5w30 than 5w20?

Jeff