Made in America, Toyota-style

If that were true they would have a '1,' like a Honda Accord which is actually made in the US, as the first number of the VIN, not a '4' as in the case of the Camry or a '5' as is the case with the Tundra indicating only assembled in the US of most imported parts

FYI, my new Civic's VIN starts with a '2'. ;)

You obviously didn't read the article throughly. Try again Mike.

I also read the VIN which indicates where a vehicle, and it component parts are build, not merely assembled. Read the fine print in Toyota ads that say made in America of world source parts.

mike hunt

So does my Grand Prix's. My car was built in Canada, Oshawa #2 to be exact...

The big three are owned by shareholders all over the world, as are most other large corporations. To think of a company as an "American" car company or a "foreign" car company is pointless.

Not if one considers that the Japanese manufactures do not pay US federal corporate income taxes on the millions in profits they earn, and take out of the country, on the vehicles they sell in the US. In addition domestic manufactures employ hundreds of thousands more American and pay them higher wages and offer better benefits, medical care and pensions.

mike hunt

Damn, I did not know that. That's a serious difference. Thanks for the info!

It makes one wonder why Toyotas cost so much more than their domestic competitors comparable cars. Seems like they should be four of five thousands less, not more. Like the Korean cars, ay? Especially when one considered the Hyundai brand scored higher than the Toyota band, in the recent JD Powers survey of initial quality of 2006 vehicles ;)

I can think of many reasons one car should cost more than another. I don't know if they apply to Toyota or any other make. There are a lot of unseen parts in suspension, internal parts, pumps, compressors, etc. Thickness of sheet metal, tolerances on engine and transmission components. Oh, and profit.

Does anyone have factual data that would support one car as being better than another brand for those reasons?

As for the initial quality, it is, IMO, less of a factor in my decision making to buy a particular brand than overall durability.

WTF are you talking about? As I recall, in 2002 my Corolla was at least three thousand less than the same-class GM car would have been with similar horsepower & features (plus the Corolla gets better gas mileage.)

I did a little digging, mike. That they pay no income tax is absolutely correct but totally misleading.

When a foreign company imports products into the US, they are required to set up a US sales and distribution subsidiary to sell them locally. If the company owns both the foreign manufacturing and the US sales subsidiary, it would be easy for the foreign manufacturing plant to charge the US subsidiary an amount of money for the imported car so that no profit is made in the US, and all the profit is made in Japan. Since income tax is paid on net profits (not sales) then all the taxes would be paid in Japan, and zero would be paid in the US.

Knowing this, the US government does not charge income tax on foreign companies, but instead charges a cash flow tax that taxes all net cash flow that leaves the US and is sent back to Japan. This allows the US to tax these foreign companies on net cash flow basis, who would otherwise never pay income taxes in the US because they would always show a loss on a net profit accrual accounting basis.

Other countries have similar arrangements for foreign companies, including US companies abroad.

So the answer is that foreign companies do not pay income taxes (because it is easy to set them up so they never have a positive net income) but instead the pay a tax on net cash flow, which is typically **more than income taxes**.

As far as pay and benefits, American companies do may a lot more, but they can't afford it. That's why they just keep shutting down plant after plant in the US.

I was wrong, they are the same. In this case, the prices are the same (adding automatic transmission with OD to the Corolla would make it almost as expensive as the Cavalier) but the Cav has 10 more horsepower and the Corolla gets 5 to 8 MPG better in the city and 5 to seven MPG better on the highway. A pretty even trade-off. Prices are the same, BUT the Cav loses five thousand dollars resale value as you drive it off the lot, whilst the Toyota only loses one thousand five hundred:

Toyotas aren't high priced, at least the Corolla isn't, I haven't looked as the luxo models.

A Toyota Corolla 2005 compared with a 2005 Chevy Cobalt are the SAME PRICE, the cars in the below link (as you can verify) are nearly identical in every single feature and option except the Toyota gets significantly better gas mileage while the cobalt has a good deal more horsepower:

Without driving them, hard to say if the power/mileage trade off is a big factor.

What these comparisons don't tell you is construction, design, engineering, durability. Does one engine have better bearings and will last 50,000 miles longer? Will one brand have the gas tank rust out in five years? Cost of repairs at 50,000 miles assuming both are driven the same?

That's true. You can always see how the older models compare with CR, but if the model itself is new or has changed significantly, that really doesn't tell you a lot.

Not to mention the 'Crapolier' will be sitting in a boneyard at 100K, while the Rolla will be being bought by its 3rd owner for $5K and still look and run great. I just sold my 97 for $5200

I totally agree, initial quality is only part of the story. It's the long term that counts most and that takes a while, ref. the recent GM disaster with their V6 gaskets failing just after the engine guarantee.

Hyundai has been struggling with quality for years. About 10 yrs back the CDN CBC advertised that they had given Hyundai an award for best new car quality. No mention was made of who conducted the tests. Eventually it came out that Hyundai bought that award with a big advertising contract.

Perhaps that is true in your world, but not in the real world LOL

mike hunt

Interesting, but CR does have accuracy for me and my friends. CR also included service responsiveness in their reporting here.

Only one Mac of a few dozen, I had 6 myself, had a problem in over 20 yrs. That was a few yrs ago due to an industry wide problem with faulty electrolytic capacitors. Apple responded quickly with a new power supply.