I see refinish king prosting more valid facts, and repair proceedures
then most other people in the 2 newsgroups I am active in.
Like an old guru once said "Look that dude can't read, or write, but he
can lay complex circutry in his head, that a team of engeneers couldn't
These people are pseudo intellects. They post drivel and claim it as fact.
Then expect everyone to fall for it. When in fact, Chevrolet and GM dealers,
Ford and Mopar dealers, have a number that the salesperson calls, which is
the fleet sales facilitator.
They price the vehicle for the sales person, and the dealer gets paid on the
holdback that would have been taken on the vehicle. If full price would have
been paid for it. It's not breach of contract, because all dealers that were
given a bid proposal have a chance to call the fleet facilitator.
The person also mentioned about buying back franchises, if her were truly
informed. He would know that was a problem with: "The Black Ford Dealer
Who helped finance some black people into dealers, and who went bankrupt,
and Ford, rather than close the store, took over the management, until they
could find a buyer for the said store.
As I said, these people are nothing but buffoons!
A six State Mega Dealer? They went out of style over ten years ago, most by
This has been reported in the business and automotive press countless times,
"Amazingly, Toyota's market capitalization stands at more than that of GM,
Ford, and DaimlerChrysler combined. "
That may be true today but PERCEPTIONS change and most of Toyotas
gains are from false perceptions, from what we see
in the fleet service business. When J D Powers rated Toyota
number one in initial quality, they based it on the fact Toyota
had more than one problem with every new vehicle, on average,
that they sold so far in 2004. As more Toyotas get in the hands
of more buyers will realize Toyotas have problems just like the
vehicles of every other manufacture, even though they paid 2o to
20 percent more to buy the vehicle. Add to that the higher rates
charged by Toyota dealers for service and parts and their
soon change. They ALL have problems on occasion that is
why they all have a warranty. The only real difference in
vehicles today is style and price, and in the end, style
and price gets the sale. 'I like the looks of that car,
how much is the monthly payment?' ;)
John Horner wrote:
Are you sure?
"Do I need the engine replaced?
Since Toyota has started the Special Policy Adjustment for model years
between 1997 - 2001 this page will pertain to owners of earlier engines with
If you have an engine with the sludge problem and it's one of the models
covered by the Special Policy Adjustment for "gel" then contact the dealer
Automotive News article 4/3/02 & 2/8/02
I get a lot of questions about owners being told that because of engine
sludge build-up they now need an new engine. In some cases that is true so
lets offer some examples and see where you fit in.
Engine sludged and the motor will not turn over. You need a motor, the cost
of repairing that one will exceed the cost of a new short block assembly.
When the engine is torn down for removal they will check the cylinder head
assemblies for damage and you may need to have more work done.
Engine sludged and the motor makes fairly loud noises when its running. You
need to replace the short block and maybe the cylinder heads. Once the
engine is torn down for removal will they know for sure if the cylinder
heads and associated parts are good or bad.
Engine smokes and runs but does not have any noise. You probably have a good
engine and all that needs to be done is cleaning the engine. It sounds easy
but its labor intensive to do a good job. It really is not all that
difficult (again if the engine is quiet when running). NOTE: Before starting
the repair make sure you have all the parts you need or a way to get them
once the engine is apart. The best way to clean the engine of sludge is to
follow this formula:
1) Get the engine hot.
2) Take off the valve covers and using Diesel fuel in a spray bottle, spray
the cylinder heads and other sludged parts. The Diesel fuel, when applied to
a hot or very warm surface, will actually make the sludge flow off the parts
and then using a scrub brush of some type start brushing the area and it
will make it look new.
3) Now that Diesel fuel and sludge will wind up in the oil pan and that
needs to come off also and be cleaned.
4) You then need to replace the oil pump pick-up screen (cleaning may work
if you are careful), the valve cover (Covers if V-6) will normally need to
be replaced. Cleaning the valve covers is difficult since the vented area
toward the top of the cover can't be cleaned.
5) Clean the intake as well as you can, change the oil and filter, PCV valve
and once together run the engine for a short time, then replace the oil and
filter again to be safe. You will probably need to clean the throttle body
to allow the engine to idle, the sludge will build up a varnish that may
prevent base idle.
If things were not to bad to begin with you can probably get it done for as
little as a couple of hundred dollars if you "repair" some parts instead of
Some dealers take the cylinder head off others do not. Taking them off does
a better job but adds to the cost, cleaning on the engine should be good for
Some are saying that the piston rings should be replaced. Since the problem
is a sludge problem which is results in oil laying on metal surfaces the
piston rings are not affected and do not need to be replaced. "
"Sludge buildup causes engine performance to deteriorate and, in extreme
cases, causes engines to seize."
"Hundreds of other angry customers, some claiming repair bills as high as
$8,000 and stuck with vehicles they were still paying for but couldn't
drive, have vented their anger on the Internet or taken their complaints to
"Parry said he has measured the temperature of the cylinder block and heads.
He said the block runs at 190 to 210 degrees Fahrenheit, while the heads
typically reach 260 to 270 degrees.
Parry, who says he has repaired about 30 sludge-filled Toyota engines since
1998, contends the V-6's cylinder head temperature is too high because
Toyota reduced the size of coolant passages in the head gaskets.
He says that makes for a hotter, cleaner burn, but also causes sludge to
build up because the oil gets too hot. Also, Parry says, sludge develops as
the oil passes back into the block, which is running 60 to 70 degrees
"We took our year 2000 Toyota Sienna Van (22,989 miles) in for a checkup at
Crescent City Toyota because on 1/13/02 p.m.our "low oil pressure" warning
light came on. After immediately checking the oil, the van had burned
through 4 quarts of oil after an oil change had just been done at 22,911
mileage and gray smoke was seen exiting the tailpipe upon engine startup. We
took it to Crescent City Toyota first thing 1/14/02 a.m.
The service dept at Crescent City Toyota checked it out, performed a "15,000
mile checkup", re-changed the oil and said they found nothing wrong and sent
us on our way. We stressed that it was very important that it was thoroughly
checked since my wife and toddler daughter would be taking a road trip out
of state on the road alone. They said it was ok. On 1/28/01 a.m. the "low
oil pressure" warning light came on again at 24,000 miles and the oil was
very low upon immediately stopping and checking.
We filled it with oil and revisited Crescent City Toyota where they now say
we need a new engine because the oil had built up inside the valves due to
neglecting to change the oil. Cost: $5,000. Why did they not find this on
1/14/02? Burning an engine out seems highly peculiar on a 1.5 year old
vehicle with only 24,000 miles."
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html (this site here
has quite a few toyota car problems)
At least (under pressure) Toyota redesigned the sludge prone engines and
extended the warranty on those effected.
GM has indeed redesigned the 3.4l intake manifold gasket multiple times but
has never announced any kind of extended warranty coverage program.
Most of the time the leak is noticed after the short GM warranty period is
It is bad enough that Toyota does not now pay a penny in
corporate taxes on the profits it earns in the US on the vehicles
that it sells for 20 to 30 percent more than those
made in the US by GM and Ford because buyers have the allusion
foreign vehicles are somehow substantially better. Vehicles
that are assembled in factories that were, for the most part,
built with state taxpayers subsidies. Plants that are able
to operate free of state and local taxes for up to 15 years
to mostly only assemble vehicles in the US of imported parts with
lower paid employees that receive fewer benefits and less
desirable pensions than their domestic manufactures
counterparts. If and when Toyota overtakes Ford and GM,
Americans will be able to buy Toyotas even higher priced
vehicles, because they will not have a competitor, from a foreign
corporation that builds the vehicles in China and provides not
one single manufacturing job and pays not a cent
of taxes to any state, local or US treasury. American consumes
have no qualms about exporting their OWN jobs, and those of their
children, but they bitch and moan when manufactures seek some of
the lower costs available throughout the world in order to
compete with foreign manufactures who have that advantage. Wise
up Americans, unless you can provide a job for yourself
and you offspring by starting your own business, if you continue
to buy more and more from foreign corporations then you will need
to go where those corporation produce their products to
get a job. If not the only skill you children and grandchildren
will need is how to say; 'Do you want fries with that?' or
'Welcome to WalMart.' ;)
John Horner wrote:
I do not know about Toyota, but Honda has 2 Engine plants here in Ohio.
As well as a vehical assembly plant. From what I understand some Honda's are
over 40% US made parts content. Not as bad as they used to be. Toyota &
Honda are in the US market for good, like Diamler-Chrysler.
I my self attempt to buy as many made in the USA products as
possible. Although in the TV, home adudi, car audio, and clothing
departments,you really have no choise. Even shoes, and work boots.
If you look in my tool boxes (2 roll aways, and a top box, plus 5
smaller boxes), you will see 95% of the tools are US Made. The other 5%, I
have a German made pair of pliers (knipex), a Japan made Blue Point Impact,
and some M-B wrenches.
If you shop at Wal-Mart a company that claimed they supported US
manufactors, you will see 75% of non food items are made out side the USA.
Even Zebco reels!
GM and Ford make most of their parts in the US and they pay
federal corporate taxes, Japanese corporations do not. I look
for the '1' as the first number of the VIN, made of at least
75% American parts. If it is only a '4' it is less than 75%,
if its a '5' it's less than 40% American parts. You can
still buy good work shoes and boot from Knapp Shoes, made
in NY state and sold by 'Iron Age' Shoe Co. Find them on
the web ;)
Charles Bendig wrote:
Blah blah blah.
Corporate concerns aren't the reason to buy car *made* in
the U.S. Corporations are always asses. What's important
is that in an era of companies firing 3000 employees here
and 5000 here, Toyota and Honda are providing thousands of
stable jobs to U.S. employees with no plans to move them
offshore. GM? Couldn't care at all about U.S. labor.
Pretty soon, GM will be nothing but a front for a large
Those factories also require lots of maintainence and
support/logistics, as well as transportation. All with
U.S. labor that feed money into the local economy and
not into someplace in India or Indonesia or Mexico.
This is exactly why our economy is in a recession despite
indicators that show otherwise.
When a large company shuts down a factory or fires a few
*thousand* people at once, it causes a micro-depression in
the local area as there are far too many people for the
The lucky ones get lower paying jobs. The rest get evicted
or have to move elsewhere, or end up on welfare or other
social programs. Entire cities have imploded because of this.
It all trickles into the local areas, and if there are multiple
companies doing it in an area, it can literally collapse the
economy of an entire county or section of a state. Currently,
the economy of the U.S. is riddled with hundreds of these
"sinkholes" and it's dragging the rest of us down.
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